Author Topic: Maximum diameter for worn valve guide?  (Read 2364 times)

Offline Neil Spooner

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Maximum diameter for worn valve guide?
« on: 04.05. 2025 13:47 »
Hi,
I am trying to assess if I need to replace my valve guides. I can find no max internal diameter or other means of establishing if the guides need replacing. Any ideas please?
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Re: Maximum diameter for worn valve guide?
« Reply #1 on: 04.05. 2025 15:45 »
do you have ball mic to measure the id ?
different guide material eg colisbro run tighter clearances if im not mistaken ....colisbro were .001 int and .0015 exh [spec from SRM ]

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Re: Maximum diameter for worn valve guide?
« Reply #2 on: 04.05. 2025 20:26 »
G'day Neil.
Put the valve in at approx full lift. If you can wiggle it side to side 1mm they need replacing.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
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Offline Neil Spooner

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Re: Maximum diameter for worn valve guide?
« Reply #3 on: 04.05. 2025 22:41 »
Thanks gents. I will check tomorrow but I am fairly sure that they could be somewhat tighter…..although at the other extreme a stuck valve could be a recipe for disaster.
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Offline Neil Spooner

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Re: Maximum diameter for worn valve guide?
« Reply #4 on: 05.05. 2025 09:20 »
Right on the “limit”…..since the cost of this thing is beginning to run away I think I will leave them. Removing the head isn’t a big job with the engine installed so I will leave it for another day.
I have just measured the bore size of the guide and established that the overall clearance is 0.006” on the diameter.
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Offline Swarfcut

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Re: Maximum diameter for worn valve guide?
« Reply #5 on: 05.05. 2025 10:45 »
 Considering how these guides manage to survive with little lubricant, a little wobble is fine, particularly exhaust guides. Inlets are a different matter, wear here allows oil to be drawn down on the over run, manifesting as a puff of smoke as the throttle is opened again.

  Depends on whether or not this happens, and if so, can you live with it? Precision engineering certainly costs, in the short term I'm all for getting an imperfect runner, rather than spending the budget for a marginal stab at perfection.

 New guides will need the seats to be recut, and new valves to match would be nice. It's one of those jobs that can be all or nothing. Could the budget be spent better elsewhere?  Alloy heads are fragile, maybe better left for now.

 Looking through earlier posts about this bike I reckon this is the least of your worries.

 Swarfy.

 

Offline Neil Spooner

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Re: Maximum diameter for worn valve guide?
« Reply #6 on: 05.05. 2025 21:52 »
Thanks Swarfy,
You are probably right. Can I fit the guides myself, ream them and recut the valve seats, all 3 angles, but I would like to change the clutch to a 4 spring also. The current 6 spring has about 2mm wobble and I have had to dress out all the wear ridges in the basket and inner cup.
Where and when to stop spending is a personal choice I suppose.
For what the bike stands me in and what it’s worth is currently about equal.
Decision decisions.
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Offline Swarfcut

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Re: Maximum diameter for worn valve guide?
« Reply #7 on: 06.05. 2025 09:08 »
  You can certainly change the guides yourself, with the right tools, other facilities, (heat) and "how to" skill.  Plus a valve reseating kit with the correct grindstones and pilot carrier. It is not simply a case of grinding in the valves as normal. Also every recut removes material from the valve seat, and a pocketed valve is a bit of a disaster. Observe my previous note about alloy heads.

  If you want this job done it is better to let the professionals do it, folks doing it for a living will have it sorted in short order. 

 As an alternative a used iron head and a set of head bolts will get the bike back on the road, leaving attention to your original head to be sorted other than in haste.

 As for the clutch, this must be the cursed 6 spring type, with the pressed steel centre. There is as much as you need to know about this already on the Forum. If you can fettle it to take up the drive and not slip, that's good enough.

 Lateral support is poor when disengaged, just two ball races close together. Yes the races wear and there will be slop, but when engaged all the clutch elements are supported by the large thick plain plate behind the chainwheel. So as long as you can set it up to work OK, that will do for now. Sooner or later a nice 4 spring jobbie will come your way......it's Sod's Law.

 It is certainly a bike with untold mechanical problems, but these are quicker and cheaper to sort out than the more demanding and expensive cosmetic touches which have already been done.

 Swarfy

Offline MikPowl

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Re: Maximum diameter for worn valve guide?
« Reply #8 on: 06.05. 2025 10:21 »
There's always valve guide lining where the existing guide is reamed and a phosphor bronze lining is inserted :
   https://www.jandeengineering.co.uk/valveguides.html   I had this done on my A10 (NOT by the company in the link- I just found these as an example) but the engine is still in rebuild so I can't report any results. I don't recollect that it was significantly expensive and there was no need to find and order the correct guides.

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Re: Maximum diameter for worn valve guide?
« Reply #9 on: 06.05. 2025 17:18 »
Thanks Swarfy,
You are probably right. Can I fit the guides myself, ream them and recut the valve seats, all 3 angles, but I would like to change the clutch to a 4 spring also. The current 6 spring has about 2mm wobble and I have had to dress out all the wear ridges in the basket and inner cup.
Where and when to stop spending is a personal choice I suppose.
For what the bike stands me in and what it’s worth is currently about equal.
Decision decisions.

these old bikes are a labour of love I have way more $$ in mine than it would retail for , as far as doing the guides , cutting the seats etc would be far cheaper to shop the work out than buy the tools ....last time I looked the seat cutter alone was $360.00 USD......machine shop charged me $150.00 to cut valve seats , face valves,

Offline Neil Spooner

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Re: Maximum diameter for worn valve guide?
« Reply #10 on: 06.05. 2025 19:23 »
As a retired mechanic I have a well equipped workshop and all I need to do the guides. I don’t use stones for cutting the valve seats, I have carbide tipped cutters, and usually do three angles for better gas flow.
I knocked out the guides this afternoon. They were barely tight and came out easily with the head cold. I will need +0.002 oversized. I would prefer bronze replacements.
The carbide cutters are quite inexpensive, check out Amazon…I don’t think I can post a link here.
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Re: Maximum diameter for worn valve guide?
« Reply #11 on: 06.05. 2025 19:42 »
As a retired mechanic I have a well equipped workshop and all I need to do the guides. I don’t use stones for cutting the valve seats, I have carbide tipped cutters, and usually do three angles for better gas flow.
I knocked out the guides this afternoon. They were barely tight and came out easily with the head cold. I will need +0.002 oversized. I would prefer bronze replacements.
The carbide cutters are quite inexpensive, check out Amazon…I don’t think I can post a link here.

I ordered colisbro  guides from SRM 20thou  over and turned each one to correct od for each guide hole interference fit as all were a bit different , pretty sure they sell the bronze guides too.

Offline Neil Spooner

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Re: Maximum diameter for worn valve guide?
« Reply #12 on: 06.05. 2025 19:59 »
Carbide tipped cutter set.

https://amzn.eu/d/fW6dd7R
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