Thanks for those thoughtful words Julian, maybe our jobs may not be that to far away ,after all I deal in peoples dreams of their future and once those dreams /aspirations are achieved and hopefully I've allowed the cash, you are then able to make /renew whatever there idea of mechanical and engineering heaven is .Anyway I do get a great kick still from helping people just...... wish I could use a lathe etc properly who knows retirement is hovering close maybe I'll sneak a lathe into the garage without "she who must be obeyed " seeing and then i can pester the life out of the likes of all of you more knowledgeable guys , see we all can still dream, best wishes BobH