Author Topic: Handlebar controls  (Read 4318 times)

Offline NickSR

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Re: Handlebar controls
« Reply #15 on: 26.03. 2010 23:08 »
Hi bl**dydrivers

I have back tracked through all my information again and I am in agreement with you its a short one, combo set up or single as you prefer I think both will right.

As for the long lever it was used when the horn button was mounted on the clutch ie around 1957 A7SS, Roads Rocket round tank badge.

Air Control Lever is 1 1/8'' part no 42/8756  Draganfly Motorcycles  www.draganfly.co.uk.

Also I agree with John O R  posting.

All the best
Nick
1962 Super Rocket
1955 BSA C11G
1998 BMW R850R

Offline bl**dydrivers

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Re: Handlebar controls
« Reply #16 on: 27.03. 2010 12:48 »
Nick, i looked it up on dragonfly, but when i click on the part number it says N/A and price is 0
I guess i will have to contact them and see if they stock it

Online BSA_54A10

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Re: Handlebar controls
« Reply #17 on: 27.03. 2010 21:24 »
Once again we are getting our knockers in a knot over something that can never be resolved.
Quote
On a 1962 A10 SR what controls came on it from the factory?

Answer;- Whatever parts that were in stock on that day

There are several different "correct" parts.
1) those shown in advertising photos which could have been taken any time from 2 years before the model was made to one year after.

2) those shown on the parts book which is what was intended to fit and might not necessarily be identical to the drawing in the book or what was actually fitted to production bikes.

3) what was actually fitted to the bike at the factory on the day the bike was made. The production line @Birmingham never stopped so if the "correct" parts were not available the bike got fitted with whatever was available at that time. Some times the factory sent the "correct" replacement parts to the dealers to swap and some times they didn't

4) what was on the bike the day it crossed the threshold of the dealers show rooms.

Now as for Roy ( expert on every thing with wheels on it ) Bacon.
He was just a journo who kept all of the bumph that every maker or importer sent to the publisher that he worked for. In retirement he compiled all of the advertising literature into a roughly chronological order and published his first ( twins & tripples I think ) which has ( from memory ) 9 incorrectly captioned photos, none of which were corrected in the second, third or fourth editions.  He then did the same thing with Triumph, Norton & Vincient twins.
Osprey ( the original publishers ) and Roy realized that they were on a winner, filing up a void and there was a good market for these types of books. And the same format was applied to around 70 books.
Now I have nothing personal against Roy with the exception that he dose not divulge that his primary reference material is factory promotional literature and he writes as if he has a deep & personnal knowledge of the material ( which he has not ). ( Nortons excepted)
Once the format was set subbies were employed to compile all of his available material into a publishable state.
As general historical reading on BSA his books are good but as a factual reference they should be treated with caution. They were written using the same material as the motorcycle magazines of the time ( and we know how accurate that was ). If you area BSA freak like myself then you end up with a lot of original factory material and when you do it becomes glaringly obvious where he sourced his material from and in particular most of the photos & illustrations.
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Online RichardL

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Re: Handlebar controls
« Reply #18 on: 27.03. 2010 23:33 »
Trevor, and all,

Personally, I am in no position to judge Bacon's real knowledge of BSAs, so I guess I can take your word for how he developed the books. If, as you say, it is just a compendium of all the factory advertising and documents, for me, that is still a useful  source. What really bothers me about Bacon's writing is the stream-of-consciousness style with no division of topics (other than chapters) and no index. It seems unbelievable to think that Mr. Bacon is just regurgitating all of the factory info without some deep interest and, at least, enthusiast-level hands-on experience. I tried to find some biographical information on him but with little luck.

Richard L.  
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Online BSA_54A10

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Re: Handlebar controls
« Reply #19 on: 28.03. 2010 03:48 »
Richard

Try and get your hands on a copy of Bruce Main-Smith's Gold Star book and read that .
Bruce is a man who actually knows about the topic that he is writing about.
Strait after reading Bruce's book go back & read Roy's book, it will hit you like a brick in the forehead.
The somewhat rambling style is what you would expect if for instance you were consolidating all of the magazine articles about a particular model into a cronology
Roy did run an A10 for a while then he went into Notruns big time.
Have a good read about what he thinks of the OIF A65 frame then ask an OIF rider ( like me for instance).
The frame is state of the art and was the benchmark for production motorcycle frames for the next 20 years.
The problem with the OIF frame was not it's height but the width of the seat at the nose & that of the side covers if he ever threw a leg over one he would know that.
The Triumphs used exactly the same frame, the seat & side covers were narrower but the seat height was initally the same.

I am not trying to say that every word is rubbish just that Roy's books should be looked at more as a general interest coffee table book rather than a reference book particularly when it comes to things like finish detail and fittings.
Also his work is limited to the UK & general export models and not the USA models.
Did you see a mention of East Coast & West Coast variations ? No because as a UK writer he did not get the USA export factory PR material but if he had a deep knowledge of what he is writing about then he would know that there was a Home edition, a UK & General export edition ( what went to Commonwealth countries ) a Canadian edition , a USA east coast and a USA West Coast variant as well as special orders like police force specials ( almost all black)
Nearly all of the material in the appendixes comes directly from BSA dealers service bullitens and was naturally sent to all dealers to facilitate ordering the correct parts, spoke sizes, carb settings, gear ratios, all standard service bulletins.
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Online RichardL

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Re: Handlebar controls
« Reply #20 on: 28.03. 2010 06:30 »
Trevor,

Those are interesting points. I understand what you mean about consolidating the articles and ending up with a chronology. Also, very interesting points about east coast versus west coast models. I'll see if I can borrow the Gold Star book. I have a feeling it would come a good "nick" (native Californian responsibly putting quotes around British slang), and without owning a Gold Star, the cost of the book might be difficult to justify.

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2020 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDEon September 27, 2020 (if it's not cancelled and we are free to move about by then). Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Online Brian

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Re: Handlebar controls
« Reply #21 on: 28.03. 2010 06:37 »
What this shows is that when you are researching any subject you can not rely on any one piece of information, you have to cross reference several sources before you can be confident of having it right and even then I dont think there is any such thing as 100% correct.

Looking at bikes in museums and in magazines is not a good idea as they are almost always not right and sometimes not even remotely as they should be.

I have a reasonble collection of original parts books etc and even they have mistakes.

Do as much research as you can and you should end up close but I dont think anyone can claim their bike is 100% correct unless you are one of the lucky ones that bought your bike new and still have it.

Online BSA_54A10

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Re: Handlebar controls
« Reply #22 on: 28.03. 2010 11:06 »
There were a good series in Chopper ( I think) written by the old publicity manager explaining just how the various publicity shots were done and how they mocked up old bikes to look like the drawings of the stylists because none of the new parts had been made yet, a real good read.
I used to be involved in this type of stuff and heave even seen last years model car which had a different body shape to the new model being covered a print of the new model then lit in such a way to make it look real. The final catalogue shot looked just like it was the real new car.
And yes, you do need to cross reference and you also need to look closely at the source and the source's source .
There are about 10,000 web pages that tell you that there either were no Jews in the world trade center or no Musleums in there both of which are incorrect stories.
That which comes from the factory (the despatch records ) are the only primary reference, parts books & PR literature are considered as secondary and any book written using this material would be considered as tertiary.
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Online Triton Thrasher

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Re: Handlebar controls
« Reply #23 on: 28.03. 2010 16:59 »
Hi
Go with the Ball Ended Levers,  most of us fitted them as a go fast option then, also a guy I work with back in the late 60's had a minor spill ended up being impaled by the standard lever in his leg, a realy nasty wound.

Also air choke lever under the seat right hand side ,came in I think in 1960.

Regards
Nick

+1!

I was on an organised old vehicle run some years ago and a guy crashed his BSA combo on a corner.  A lever stabbed his small son's leg.

So it is at least a reasonably foreseeable injury.

Offline alanp

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Re: Handlebar controls
« Reply #24 on: 28.03. 2010 19:14 »
Just for the record, I have a Motor Cycle road test article of 1962 for the Rocket Gold Star, which shows both individual air and manual advance/retard controls mounted on the bars. Both of these lever controls had ball ends as well as the brake/clutch levers.
Member of the 'Last of the Summer Wine Club - Jennycliff'.

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Re: Handlebar controls
« Reply #25 on: 29.03. 2010 07:48 »
But was it a production run RGS or a pre-production showroom special ?

This gets to be very circular arguement dosn't it. :-)
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Trevor

Offline alanp

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Re: Handlebar controls
« Reply #26 on: 29.03. 2010 09:54 »
54A10, you're right, who knows. Anyway I prefer the flat ended air and advance levers so fitted them instead even though it's supposed to be a replica. Guess it all boils down to personal preference in the end.
Member of the 'Last of the Summer Wine Club - Jennycliff'.

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Re: Handlebar controls
« Reply #27 on: 30.03. 2010 08:49 »
Yep,
An oft quoted line in help replies.
"It is your bike so build it how you like it , paint it whatever colour you like and if it offends some one else the they can always buy it back from you ( at your price ) to restore it back to their "idea " of catalogue original.
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Trevor