Author Topic: A10 sidecar crank  (Read 2551 times)

Offline trickytree

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 146
  • Karma: 1
  • Lincolnshire, England
A10 sidecar crank
« on: 18.06. 2010 17:06 »
Has anyone had experiance of one of these monsters? There is one on ebay at the momment, chap reckons it is very heavy and was used for sidecar work. Cant get my head around wether this would be a good idea in a solo bike or not. Obviously it would make for a pretty lazy engine, which is what I am after, but would it offer any advantage over a ordinary A10 crank?

My guess is that if it is properly ballanced then it should be quite smooth but if it isnt then it is going to give the main bearings a hard time. Apparently quite rare so was it not popular becouse of cost or was it just not nessesary?

Cheers, Paul.
1965 A65 Bobber
A10 Bitza project

Offline A10Boy

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 1075
  • Karma: 11
  • Solihull, Near Birmingham England.
Re: A10 sidecar crank
« Reply #1 on: 18.06. 2010 20:51 »
That guy breaks and sells parts, he doesn't know much about BSA's so its probably a guess.

My view is that you dont need one so heavy.

There is a topic on here about the extra heavy crank if you search.
Regards

Andy

1960 A10 - Black Golden Flash
Plus
1974 Kawasaki Z1a
Yam XJR 1300

Offline bonny

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Posts: 262
  • Karma: 1
Re: A10 sidecar crank
« Reply #2 on: 18.06. 2010 21:01 »
never heard of any manufacturer making a crank specifically for side car work, specific bikes yes eg. m21, but cranks no. how much heavier is it ?

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 8021
  • Karma: 106
  • Lake Conjola NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: A10 sidecar crank
« Reply #3 on: 18.06. 2010 21:18 »
I think the heavy crank came in at the time they were going from small journal to large. They would have found that it didn't rev as quickly and re-designed it to the lighter one.
A heavier crank will give you more torque, which is why it would suit a sidecar.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR, '76 XT500, '77 AG175 '83 CB1100F, '81 CB900F project.
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline A10Boy

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 1075
  • Karma: 11
  • Solihull, Near Birmingham England.
Re: A10 sidecar crank
« Reply #4 on: 18.06. 2010 22:13 »
Sorry to disagree, it wouldn't give more torque. The engine would accelerate slightly slower and have more momentum or stored energy, that's all.
Regards

Andy

1960 A10 - Black Golden Flash
Plus
1974 Kawasaki Z1a
Yam XJR 1300

Offline trickytree

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 146
  • Karma: 1
  • Lincolnshire, England
Re: A10 sidecar crank
« Reply #5 on: 18.06. 2010 22:40 »
Thanks very much guys, reckon I'll knock this idea on the head.
1965 A65 Bobber
A10 Bitza project

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 8021
  • Karma: 106
  • Lake Conjola NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: A10 sidecar crank
« Reply #6 on: 18.06. 2010 22:45 »
G'day Andy,
                   I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that momentum is torque. A heavy weight is slower to accelerate but also slower to slow down.
I'm not an engineer just a lowly fitter & turner. *respect*
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR, '76 XT500, '77 AG175 '83 CB1100F, '81 CB900F project.
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline bonny

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Posts: 262
  • Karma: 1
Re: A10 sidecar crank
« Reply #7 on: 19.06. 2010 00:35 »
G'day Andy,
                   I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that momentum is torque. A heavy weight is slower to accelerate but also slower to slow down.
I'm not an engineer just a lowly fitter & turner. *respect*
Cheers
oi muskrat i'm a fitter and turner too , and a crank thats heavier being slow to accelerate and decelerate is my understanding too. 

Online trevinoz

  • Newcastle, N.S.W. Australia.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2006
  • Posts: 2849
  • Karma: 66
Re: A10 sidecar crank
« Reply #8 on: 19.06. 2010 00:46 »
As far as I know, the billet crank was made for the RR in 1956 - 57. It was the original large journal crank.
According to my mate who had a couple of these early Rockets, the acceleration was a bit slow but once the engine was revving it pulled like a train.
Definitely was not made for sidecar work exclusively.
Trev.

Offline bonny

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Posts: 262
  • Karma: 1
Re: A10 sidecar crank
« Reply #9 on: 19.06. 2010 00:53 »
i know in stan stentons "triumph tuning" he recommended using a heavier crank for racing .

Offline Rocket Racer

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 1378
  • Karma: 16
  • A kiwi with a racing A10 rig
    • NZ Classic Sidecar Racing
Re: A10 sidecar crank
« Reply #10 on: 19.06. 2010 01:36 »
I have one of these and a normal LJ crank, am currently building them into two race engines, am very interested to see how they compare. There will be differences in piston o/s and compression though and one will be twin carb...
No help in making your decision to buy this one on ebay though as my completed builds are still months away (for both). Should have the heavy crank motor done first.
In my case they will be hauling a chair, so not concerned about the weight too much!
A good rider periodically checks all nuts and bolts with a spanner to see that they are tight - Instruction Manual for BSA B series, p46, para 2.
New Zealand

Offline trickytree

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 146
  • Karma: 1
  • Lincolnshire, England
Re: A10 sidecar crank
« Reply #11 on: 19.06. 2010 09:31 »
Be interesting to see how much it goes for, last few big journal cranks on the bay have gone for £300 ish (similar price to a set of thick flange barrels) so not something I'm willing to have a punt on at that price.

Wonder what ballance factor would be used? (My) logic would sugest that it could be made to run smoother than a lighter crank as the same rods and pistons make up proportionaly less of the overall weight??
1965 A65 Bobber
A10 Bitza project

Offline A10Boy

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 1075
  • Karma: 11
  • Solihull, Near Birmingham England.
Re: A10 sidecar crank
« Reply #12 on: 19.06. 2010 13:29 »
I may well regret posting this, opening a can of worms, but faint heart never - well you know the rest.

For practical purposes, I think of momentum as the flywheel effect of energy stored in the flywheel, crank etc, and torque is the turning force of the crankshaft caused by the engine being produced at that time.

F1 engines have almost no flywheel effect, kill them at 10,000 rpm and the stop almost instantly, while your old Lister which runs at only 400 rpm with huge flywheels takes about 3 days to stop. For our old beezers, we need somewhere in between.

In theory, stored energy in the crank helps when starting off or hitting a hill, but that's partially used up and then its over to the engine producing power and that's where you feel its torque.

I've never ridden an A10 with one of these super heavy cranks, but I would imagine its quite smooth. Although, BSA must have had a reason to make the lighter one we all know.

Anyhow, they weren't made for sidecar use.

BTW, that seller is ok, hes got a breakers in Bromsgrove, and hes ok to get random bits from.

I just find it frustrating that his adds are always only one pic, and hardly any description.  Just been reground- Yeah, what to ??

Regards

Andy

1960 A10 - Black Golden Flash
Plus
1974 Kawasaki Z1a
Yam XJR 1300

Offline trickytree

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 146
  • Karma: 1
  • Lincolnshire, England
Re: A10 sidecar crank
« Reply #13 on: 19.06. 2010 15:37 »
.........Just been reground- Yeah, what to ??.....

-20 thou!! Spoke to him this week, going down next Saturday for a look around, suposed to be a real Aladins cave so thought I would have a day out. Of course I will undoubtedly return with a boot full of "projects" *conf*
1965 A65 Bobber
A10 Bitza project

Offline A10Boy

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 1075
  • Karma: 11
  • Solihull, Near Birmingham England.
Re: A10 sidecar crank
« Reply #14 on: 19.06. 2010 18:12 »
I've been there many times, its just down the road from me. You will be amazed at the stuff hes got there, literally many tens of tons of British bike parts. Good luck.
Regards

Andy

1960 A10 - Black Golden Flash
Plus
1974 Kawasaki Z1a
Yam XJR 1300