Author Topic: Puzzling Frame  (Read 1986 times)

Offline Lightningpower

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 69
  • Karma: 0
Puzzling Frame
« on: 28.06. 2010 19:08 »
I just bought this A10 frame, it was chromed (that was removed and it is down to the nickel now), it has no rear footpeg loops, and is in otherwise good condition.  I have a 1959 Spitfire Scrambler and the frames look identical.  I cannot make sense of the frame number, however.  Is it possible that someone at BSA miss-stamped the frame and then added the second A in A7A?  The numbers look like a 1963 Super Rocket, but then have the added "A".  Unfortunately, I didn't take other pictures of the frame before I put it into storage for the season.  What do you all think?  Are there records from BSA where they list the frame numbers of produced machines and what they were?  If so, how would I find out?  I would very much like to know if I have a legitimate Spitfire Scrambler frame or a legitimate Super Rocket.  Thanks in advance for your wisdom.

**Picture removed, number was A7A 225XX
1953 Star Twin - Racing
1956 Road Rocket
1958 Super Rocket
1959 Spitfire Scrambler
1967 Hornet

Offline trickytree

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 146
  • Karma: 1
  • Lincolnshire, England
Re: Puzzling Frame
« Reply #1 on: 28.06. 2010 21:58 »
Sorry I cant help you as such  but a few months ago there was a A7 plunger frame for sale on ebay that I was interested in and that too had an extra "A" in the frame number. I asked on Britbike forum at the time but got no reply.

I was under the impression that there should be a space between the model number and the frame number.

Be interesting to find out what this extra "A" is for.
1965 A65 Bobber
A10 Bitza project

Offline cus

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 305
  • Karma: 4
Re: Puzzling Frame
« Reply #2 on: 28.06. 2010 23:30 »
G'day There,
After GA7A-748, makes it a '63 spifire  frame.
Good find............"Let me know if you want to sell it!!!"

regards, Cus
56 G/Flash project

Offline Lightningpower

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 69
  • Karma: 0
Re: Puzzling Frame
« Reply #3 on: 29.06. 2010 00:15 »
While it seems like it would be an A7A Spitfire frame, I am concerned that the number following is so high.  Also, the A almost seems stamped over the "dot" that separates the number from the prefix (A7A).  Am I being overly cautious, or can one be overly cautious anymore, concerning frame number provinance?
1953 Star Twin - Racing
1956 Road Rocket
1958 Super Rocket
1959 Spitfire Scrambler
1967 Hornet

Online trevinoz

  • Newcastle, N.S.W. Australia.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2006
  • Posts: 2934
  • Karma: 67
Re: Puzzling Frame
« Reply #4 on: 29.06. 2010 01:15 »
I would guess that it is a standard frame modified to Spitfire.
The "A" is a different font and as stated above, it is over stamped on the dot.
A Spitfire number would not be that high as I am sure that not that many were built.
Trev.

Offline Lightningpower

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 69
  • Karma: 0
Re: Puzzling Frame
« Reply #5 on: 29.06. 2010 01:31 »
When I pull the frame out of storage, I will be better able to tell if it has been modified.  Are there differences between Spitfire and Super Rocket frames? (apart from the rearset loops)
1953 Star Twin - Racing
1956 Road Rocket
1958 Super Rocket
1959 Spitfire Scrambler
1967 Hornet

Offline cus

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 305
  • Karma: 4
Re: Puzzling Frame
« Reply #6 on: 29.06. 2010 01:51 »
Not much info on how many made in '63, but I did see in a forum that someone stated that there were under 300,
which would make it a mock-up as Trevor said, '62 a10 frame, wouldn't be hard to fill the A with weld & add loops
to bring back to original. With the stamping, I have seen some pretty dodgy jobs from the factory, especially on 60's
Triumphs, but that A does look added.

Cus
56 G/Flash project

Online trevinoz

  • Newcastle, N.S.W. Australia.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2006
  • Posts: 2934
  • Karma: 67
Re: Puzzling Frame
« Reply #7 on: 29.06. 2010 02:58 »
My friends frame has an exhaust mounting welded to the right hand tube behind the oil tank.
It is the same item used on the standard frames for pillion rest/exhaust mount.
Trev.

Offline dpaddock

  • NC, USA
  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2006
  • Posts: 429
  • Karma: 5
Re: Puzzling Frame
« Reply #8 on: 29.06. 2010 03:45 »
The frame number - 22540 - cannot be a Spitfire; it's too high. Only the A7, GF and SR in 1962 used the GA7 prefix having this number range (21120 to 236420). The extra "A" is bogus for this number to be genuine.

David
David
'57 Spitfire


Offline Lightningpower

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 69
  • Karma: 0
Re: Puzzling Frame
« Reply #9 on: 29.06. 2010 05:34 »
Thanks for all the replies.  I tend to agree with David that the extra "A" is bogus, but, I can't be sure without finding out from BSA records.  I have seen at least two BSA's with numbers that were altered from the factory, and so, my faith in the exact science of BSA numbering is weak.  Is there any way to determine originality of factory numbers?  Is there a list of numbers and machines as they left the factory?
1953 Star Twin - Racing
1956 Road Rocket
1958 Super Rocket
1959 Spitfire Scrambler
1967 Hornet

Offline BSA_54A10

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 2055
  • Karma: 32
    • BSA National
Re: Puzzling Frame
« Reply #10 on: 29.06. 2010 10:52 »
Well write to the BSAOC UK, spend the $ 20 and get the engine & frame dated from the factory despatch books.

It was fairly common for criminals to rebirth a motorcycle by adding another digit in the space between the prefix & the serial number.
Add to that some juristrictions added another digit on motorcycles that were stolen then recovered after the insurance claim had been finalized
And that is without weird things BSA did to distinguish anomolies and specials
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Offline Lightningpower

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 69
  • Karma: 0
Re: Puzzling Frame
« Reply #11 on: 29.06. 2010 15:13 »
I have run the frame number without the added "A" through the police, and there's no record of it being stolen.  If BSAOC UK has the records, then yes, they are the answer!  Thanks!
1953 Star Twin - Racing
1956 Road Rocket
1958 Super Rocket
1959 Spitfire Scrambler
1967 Hornet

Offline BSA_54A10

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 2055
  • Karma: 32
    • BSA National
Re: Puzzling Frame
« Reply #12 on: 30.06. 2010 09:56 »
Which Police ?
Is there a common data base for all US states that goes back as far as 1963 ?
Then how about Canada, Mexico, UK, Europe, Australia ?
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Offline gold33

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Feb 2009
  • Posts: 110
  • Karma: 1
Re: Puzzling Frame
« Reply #13 on: 30.06. 2010 12:29 »
Well done if there is a data base for the US back to '63.
Australia most of didn't have electronic records for the respective States until the early 80's, anything prior to that is hard copy only "GOOD LUCK". I believe the States (of Aust) didn't start sharing information without formal requests until recently (who says we're backward).

I discovered this while trying to use a 1933 registration number to find a bike, all they could tell me was that the plate series ran from, I think 1930 or 31 until the late 30's and based on their best guess the plate I was chasing would have most likely been issued in 1933 and hadn't been in use since electronic systems had been setup
Darren
'52 Plunger

Offline Lightningpower

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 69
  • Karma: 0
Re: Puzzling Frame
« Reply #14 on: 02.07. 2010 06:55 »
It was through the Canadian Police that I ran the numbers.  I was at storage today and inspected the frame next to a genuine 1959 Spitfire Scrambler frame.  The only differance is the plate that wraps the headstock is the later, taller style.  Some idiot with more tools than brains tried to add brackets for rear footpegs using flatiron.  These have been cut off, but he made a mess.  As far as factory workmanship is concerned the frames appear to be the same.
1953 Star Twin - Racing
1956 Road Rocket
1958 Super Rocket
1959 Spitfire Scrambler
1967 Hornet