Author Topic: Rattle  (Read 3567 times)

Offline alanp

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Re: Rattle
« Reply #15 on: 25.07. 2010 09:57 »
Thanks again. I'll talk to SRM tomorrow. When I built the engine up they didn't have any of their cam followers available so bought 4 elsewhere. If not, I'll try to get these cleaned up and nitrided, but can't recall if nitriding needs to be done on specific steels. Anyone recall? The cam shaft was in the engine when SRM rebuilt the bottom end and I think they just cleaned them up. I didn't get invoiced for a new one. Those aluminium push rods do seem quite easy to bend and once a slight bend starts then the bend will get worse with rapid end loading. Maybe this is why the noise did get worse or am I deluding myself. I'll also attempt to get a set of springs from a reputable supplier if John's test gives me doubts about these. The cam shaft end float was about .013" before the inner cover was fitted and the breather pulled this down to virtually nothing to feel. I'll take another look to make sure the followers aren't too far offset from the cam faces to overlap, I know they are close since the ridging is virtually on one follower of each pair. See photo attached. Bear in mind they have only done 950 miles or so!
Alan
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Offline MG

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Re: Rattle
« Reply #16 on: 25.07. 2010 11:19 »
Allan, every ferritic steel can be nitrided, but generally speaking, the higher alloyed the steel the higher the final hardness value. The best results are achieved with the high-alloy nitiriding steels that contain the correct alloying elements to create enough hard nitrides.
The common case-hardening or QT steels which would be used for cranks, cams and followers definitely can be nitrided.

Here's a picture of mine, having covered 2000 miles in twisty mountain roads (and several ton-up runs  *smile*).
Sorry for the bad quality, hard to get a good photo if you can't turn the barrels over without the followers disappearing in their guides, so had to use the flashlight, which didn't work too well.  *dunno2*
However, you can see where the lobes have run, but there's no visible or sensible ridge whatsoever.

Cheers
1955 A7 Shooting Star
1956 A10 Golden Flash
1961 Matchless G12 CSR

www.histo-tech.at - Restoration, Repairs, Racing

Austria

Online bsa-bill

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Re: Rattle
« Reply #17 on: 25.07. 2010 11:47 »
must say they do look rough, might be the camera exaggerates the high and lows.
I think (memory again) that I sent mine to Lyford Classics for an exchange set.

Quote
the alloy ones spring and rub on the head /barrel joint, they rotate as they run so the rub appears all around

interesting John - that's what mine have done, I'll keep an eye on them
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline alanp

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Re: Rattle
« Reply #18 on: 25.07. 2010 15:48 »
I've taken the rocker box bits apart and taken off some of the casting where the push rods pass through. I'll look at the barrel casting hole in the same area tomorrow just in case there's contact there. I've quit for the day to watch the end of the Tour de France on the TV.
While rebuilding the rocker box parts I noticed that while the valves are at 3 1/2" centres, the exhaust tappets were 1/16" less. It probably makes no difference but I'll get a spacer made up to fit on the exhaust rocker spindle to correct this anyhow once I figure out which one (or both) needs to be moved to get the tappets dead central with the valve spindles.
Alan
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Offline Goldseeker

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Re: Rattle
« Reply #19 on: 25.07. 2010 16:46 »
After reading the posts here I opened my Classic Bike mag and in it is an article about Roger Sharman of Cake Street Classics and his tips on A10 engines. He mentions in the article that he modifies cam followers in a way that provides better lub. Its on pages 94-97 - August addition. He blocks the original oil drain hole and machines grooves in the cam follower shafts thus forcing the oil to drain over the follower faces and camshafts.

This mod might be worth doing (or having done), especially if fitting another set of new ones.
Col.

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Offline MG

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Re: Rattle
« Reply #20 on: 25.07. 2010 18:21 »
That's an interesting idea indeed.
Does the article state where exactly to machine the grooves along the followers? I have used my previous picture to show where I'd think they make most sense (yellow arrows). That's the only position to get the oil onto the oncoming lobe and not loose any important bearing surface area.

I would go and buy a copy of the magazine if I could only get it here, Roger usually knows his stuff.
1955 A7 Shooting Star
1956 A10 Golden Flash
1961 Matchless G12 CSR

www.histo-tech.at - Restoration, Repairs, Racing

Austria

Offline alanp

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Re: Rattle
« Reply #21 on: 25.07. 2010 19:40 »
Isn't life hilarious at times - my cam followers are Cake Street ones. They have the grooves you mention, however I didn't notice them at the time and by chance on each pair one groove is one way and the other is opposite. If you look closely at the photo I posted you can just make out at least one groove.
I had no idea about blocking off the normal drain holes on the barrel casting either. I must get a copy of the Classic Bike for August before I button this engine back up.
Alan
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Offline Goldseeker

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Re: Rattle
« Reply #22 on: 25.07. 2010 19:47 »
If its OK (copyright and all that) I will scan the relevant photo/blurb and post here. Perhaps Admin/Webmaster can advise?
Col.

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Offline MG

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Re: Rattle
« Reply #23 on: 25.07. 2010 19:49 »
Quote
If you look closely at the photo I posted you can just make out at least one groove.
Now as you mentioned it, yes, and exactly where I expected them to be.

Quote
If its OK (copyright and all that) I will scan the relevant photo/blurb and post here. Perhaps Admin/Webmaster can advise?
Now THAT would be great for us continental Europeans.  *smile*


Alan, you wouldn't mind posting a picture and some measurements of the grooves, would you?
Now that my A10 engine is in pieces anyway....

Cheers, Markus
1955 A7 Shooting Star
1956 A10 Golden Flash
1961 Matchless G12 CSR

www.histo-tech.at - Restoration, Repairs, Racing

Austria

Offline Goldseeker

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Re: Rattle
« Reply #24 on: 25.07. 2010 20:07 »
Markus, although I may not be able to reproduce the image and text I am sure I can describe what the mods are.  ;)

The grooves are where you thought and they look to be approx. 1.5mm wide and the same depth. He inserts a threaded plug in the drain hole to blank it off. He also describes using MIG weld to do the same job but I think a plug is the best solution.
Col.

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BSA Rocket 3 Mk1

Offline MG

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Re: Rattle
« Reply #25 on: 25.07. 2010 20:11 »
Okay, thanks a lot Goldseeker. That's about how I imagined it.
1955 A7 Shooting Star
1956 A10 Golden Flash
1961 Matchless G12 CSR

www.histo-tech.at - Restoration, Repairs, Racing

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Offline alanp

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Re: Rattle
« Reply #26 on: 27.07. 2010 14:07 »
Goldseeker, just curious, how did you get the August copy of the Classic Bike on the 25th when it doesn't come out until the 28th?
Alan
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Offline Goldseeker

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Re: Rattle
« Reply #27 on: 27.07. 2010 15:31 »
Goldseeker, just curious, how did you get the August copy of the Classic Bike on the 25th when it doesn't come out until the 28th?
Alan

Subscription I suppose.  *dunno2*
Col.

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Offline muskrat

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Re: Rattle
« Reply #28 on: 27.07. 2010 20:54 »
G'day all,
              The cam follower mod sounds like a great idea but I would shy away from blocking the drain holes at the front. You would end up with a pool of oil around the ex guide and would inevitably oil up the pipes.
Cheers
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Offline MG

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Re: Rattle
« Reply #29 on: 27.07. 2010 21:03 »
Totally agree muskrat, but I don't think blocking the holes at the front was part of the concept anyway, or did I miss something?

1955 A7 Shooting Star
1956 A10 Golden Flash
1961 Matchless G12 CSR

www.histo-tech.at - Restoration, Repairs, Racing

Austria