Author Topic: RGS replicas = cafe racers/ bitsas  (Read 5930 times)

G/F DAVE

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RGS replicas = cafe racers/ bitsas
« on: 08.12. 2010 11:44 »
I dont know how many of you have noticed that there seems to be a increased selection of so called ROCKET GOLD STAR REPLICAS for sale lately.Can someone tell me where the name replica came from and where did it start ?.When I first started riding  / repairing bikes these were called cafe racers made from bits from several different bikes put together to make up a bike.To my mind BSA never made a replica of anything. I have seen them with made up with cable rear brakes / B31 tanks with a 4" goldie badge crammed into place / A7 engines ( See Item number: 150530644852 on ebay  even seen one with a diver helmet headlamp cowl fitted (nice) .These bikes are just cafe racers but by claiming a RGS REPLICA name tag you can bung up the resale price to twice their real value.You can still have a nice looking cafe racer with all the right bits but to call it a replica RGS is sad. Dave..

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Re: RGS replicas = cafe racers/ bitsas
« Reply #1 on: 08.12. 2010 13:33 »
Couldn't agree more Dave, which is why this is a Rocket Golf Flash
All the best - Bill
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1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline alanp

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Re: RGS replicas = cafe racers/ bitsas
« Reply #2 on: 08.12. 2010 13:41 »
I agree with your sentiments and would advise anyone thinking of buying one to take along someone who knows a lot about the real RGS spec. My RGS replica has been very carefully produced with a mid '50s frame which corresponds to the '62 RGS with the Goldie rear brake design on the left and correct battery tray position etc etc etc especially after the top frame gusset and lower engine frame lugs have been changed. There are very many points to consider (some not obvious at all) and the price of an RGS described as a replica will depend on how far the conversion was carried out. Many owners don't know the many differences from say a Super Rocket and most will not have the time/finance/skill/motivation to do a thorough job anyhow. My log book clearly shows it's not genuine due to it's first registered date in the '50s and I wouldn't dream of trying to con anyone about it, but to me it is a replica which has even fooled owners of genuine RGSs. Takes dedication though.
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Offline Goldy

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Re: RGS replicas = cafe racers/ bitsas
« Reply #3 on: 08.12. 2010 16:47 »
As I read somewhere recently there are more BSA Gold Stars on the road than were actually made.
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Offline trickytree

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Re: RGS replicas = cafe racers/ bitsas
« Reply #4 on: 08.12. 2010 17:50 »
Dont get me started!! Look up "replica" in a decent dictionary and I'm sure it says something like "exact copy"....so the vast majority of these heaps are nothing like a replica.

There should be a sub routine on ebay that subtitutes the word "replica" for "worthless pile of tat thrown together to dupe born again bikers out of loads of money"

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G/F DAVE

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Re: RGS replicas = cafe racers/ bitsas
« Reply #5 on: 09.12. 2010 18:39 »
I have read your replys but they still dont really answer my original question, Why are these bikes being called replicas not cafe racers? I have seen TRIUMPH T110s with twin carb heads & rev counters and made to look like a bonneville but they are not call bonneville replicas, BSA B33s with clip ons barrells & head sprayed silver etc but these are not called goldie replicas just bitsas / cafe racers or even custom bikes. I have also seen some very nice A10s in cafe racer style & can aknowledge the work & skill gone into producing such a machine.
 On a different note I recently met a guy who has bought  a A10 which has a B31 frame no one else wanted it and as it had been advertised for a while so he got it for a bargain price.Now this bike had a goldie tank, A10R hhc engine, goldie wheels & brakes etc on checking engine number found out it was a genuine RGS lump so he visited the seller to find out more of its history, seems it was originally his brothers bike that was crashed in the 60s to be re-framed with a B31 frame & his brother still had the bent GA10 frame in his garage roofspace needless to say he bought this frame to be reunited with engine.Lucky or what *eek* Dave          They are still out there to be found good luck!

Offline tombeau

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Re: RGS replicas = cafe racers/ bitsas
« Reply #6 on: 10.12. 2010 07:13 »
When you see parts like rear brake cables listed as RGS, you really have to wonder "why?"
The seller must know its wrong. It makes him look stupid as well.
Cheers,
Iain

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Re: RGS replicas = cafe racers/ bitsas
« Reply #7 on: 10.12. 2010 10:07 »
The motivation is greed simple as that. A bit like the practice that is becoming ever more common where dealers especially, and some private sellers are no longer stating a price in an attempt to get more money. POA (price on application) Ask, phone, or just a description without any mention of price. I for one treat these ads with the contempt that they deserve. I can't be bothered to play silly games. Then again I do not buy from ebay for the same reason. I have no interest in bidding. I just want to see an item offered for sale with the correct description and a price. I will then decide weather I want to do business. And why do auctioneers charge a buyers premium? What is all that about? I have to assume that there are a lot of gullible people who are extremely happy to be ripped off.

John

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Re: RGS replicas = cafe racers/ bitsas
« Reply #8 on: 10.12. 2010 11:28 »
Quote
And why do auctioneers charge a buyers premium?

I could be wrong John but I think it's common practise at auctions that a commission is charged to both seller and buyer., sellers can pay 8 to 20% (then vat on that) and buyers up to 10%.

Early days on Ebay it was like a huge jumble, now it's become much more of an on-line store, for bike stuff I have a few trusted sellers who are reputable traders.

More and more though there are sellers asking way too high prices for stuff available from your regular trader for less, so check your trader for price before you bid.

Also of course there is the option to "Ask the seller a question" like "Will that plunger gearbox really fit my RGS?" *smiley4*
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

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Re: RGS replicas = cafe racers/ bitsas
« Reply #9 on: 10.12. 2010 15:44 »
Quote
I could be wrong John but I think it's common practise at auctions that a commission is charged to both seller and buyer., sellers can pay 8 to 20% (then vat on that) and buyers up to 10%.

Bill, Yes, I know this a universal practice. What I do not understand is why buyers are prepared to go along with it. How would people react I wonder if for example they were told that they had to pay a buyers premium when they went through the check out at Tesco? Sellers obviously pay for services rendered, but buyers? A very dubious practice I would contend.

I am not sure that I would trust a seller to give me true and accurate information when descriptions like RGS rear brake cable are used, or RGS, Gold Star wiring harness with no QD plug. Like you I use only trusted reliable sellers. If I go to SRM, Burton Bike Bits,C&D Autos, or any of the many other similar suppliers of BSA parts I know exactly what I am going to get, and what the price is going to be. Another annoyance  is where prices listed do not include VAT.

Offline tombeau

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Re: RGS replicas = cafe racers/ bitsas
« Reply #10 on: 14.12. 2010 08:13 »
 a while back I saw one that was described as a "genuine replica"
You've got to be careful, you wouldn't want to get your fingers burnt over a fake replica.
Cheers,
Iain

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Re: RGS replicas = cafe racers/ bitsas
« Reply #11 on: 14.12. 2010 18:14 »
How true Tombeau!
Words and Humpty Dumpty come to mind.
As in (roughly) 'words mean what I want them to mean, no more and no less'.
A purist might say that unless a machine still comprises all its original parts (or original factory-made model-specific spares, worst case), it is at least part replica. There are vehicles around, languishing and unused, because their owners don't want to restore them because 'they wouldn't be original'. Rather screws up the main reason for having them if they won't go.
Replica means copy, except in the rare factory cases of, eg 'TT Replica' Rudges or whatever. Copies come in many grades, like oil. Most are inexact imitations, putting it politely. But many are beautifully made, so credit where it's due.
My stuff is all 'genuinely authentic fake' in at least some respect, even where the 'numbers match' (ha! - another tin of worms) and the thing looks right.
Given that we're only really talking about motorised bicycles (and pretty bits of bent tin in the case of old 4-wheelers), I'm in the camp that approves of honest bitsas, as long as they work properly and aren't mis-sold. I get as much pleasure - more actually - from playing with my incorrect 'mixer' B31 or A10 than I do from one or two other things that are actually rather more 'correct'.
It doesn't make much odds value-wise with cooking stuff, but the galling thing is when people mis-describe sought-after and more expensive toys (and profit from the gullible). E-Bay regularly has things which can't possibly be what the seller says, even if the seller honestly believes his own BS.
Like John, I hate all auctions anyway and only go near as a very last resort. But hey, it's the usual problem. Try to sell something useful through the older channels and it's 'nah mate, two a penny/dime a dozen, them'. Try to buy a boring thjng - like a chainguard or something - and 'they're rockin' 'orse droppings mate'.
'Twas ever thus, sadly. Which is why a lot of us are happy to mix 'n match if that's what gets things going and keeps them going.
Bill

Offline Lukey

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Re: RGS replicas = cafe racers/ bitsas
« Reply #12 on: 21.12. 2010 21:49 »
I am planning on building a b33/b31 into a goldstar replica, it will be using goldie barrels, head,crank, goldie tank, wheels etc as I cant afford a genuine goldie and its more the riding it than anything.  I wont ever sell it as It will be hand built and a sort of road racing machine purely for the kicks. If I could get the same amount of power out of a b33 engine ( which I think I can) then I will be doing that. Built for a purpose of riding fast and being a 500 single with the twitter. I will know its not a goldie but others might not. Its up to them to decide what they want to call it  *smile*
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Re: RGS replicas = cafe racers/ bitsas
« Reply #13 on: 21.12. 2010 22:33 »
Never mind what others want to call it, you call it yours and it's yours to make whatever you want out of it.
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline Lukey

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Re: RGS replicas = cafe racers/ bitsas
« Reply #14 on: 22.12. 2010 11:49 »
This is how I would like mine to come out, to me its georgeous, only BSA enthusiasts would know its not a goldstar. For me half the fun as was with the MZ was tuning it and getting the best performance out of it, Not so it blows up but improving what it already is. A goldstar is fantastic and has brilliant performance out of the box but that's the point, its out of the box, there all the same

I prefer my bikes to be built not brought, to go out with the goldie lads on a b31/b33 and keep up with them would make me just as proud as owning a goldstar, you get the purist's who like everything original but i see it like this, If its a BSA engine and frame then surely its another BSA kept on the road?? whether its original or not

I do love original bikes just as much as modified bikes ( the a10 and a7ss etc) but theres also the fun element involved of building a machine from a box bits to YOUR OWN taste









to me that is gorgeous, there are some things I dont like which when I build mine will be changed
1960 BSA A7SS
1950 BSA A10 Police bike - rebuild
1960 BSA A10 Overland Project
1959 BSA A10 Project Caferacer
1949 BSA Bantam D1 - as it came out of the factory
1951 BSA Bantam D1 trials - a bit of fun
1964 BSA C15 Trials
1960 BSA B40 Scramber - Building to original spec