Author Topic: Triumph 4 spring clutch (non cush type)  (Read 7416 times)

Offline kiwipom

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Triumph 4 spring clutch (non cush type)
« on: 18.01. 2011 07:57 »
Hi guys, I have a Triumph 4 spring clutch to fit to my A10, the alignment is out by 5mm. I have investigated having the taper recut to make it line up and have been told it can be done, I would be interested to know if any anyone on the forum has done this and also are there any problems that might arise once it has been done, cheers, bob
A10.G.Flash(cafe racer)Honda 250 vtr. Yamaha Virago XV920.

War! what is it good for?Absolutely nothing, Edwin Star.
NewZealand

Offline pato08

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Re: Triumph 4 spring clutch (non cush type)
« Reply #1 on: 18.01. 2011 08:11 »
Hi KiwiPom

There has been some discussion about Triumph & Suzuki clutch's on the forum. Try typing in "Clutch" in the search engine in the right hand corner of the Home Page.   *smile*

Pato
1957 Plunger, one of the very rare collector's items ;-)
Australia

Online bsa-bill

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Re: Triumph 4 spring clutch (non cush type)
« Reply #2 on: 18.01. 2011 13:49 »
Hi KiwiPom
Not sure if I've got this right so forgive me if I'm barking up the wrong tree

If you mean the clutch wheel is 5mm out of alignment with the engine sprocket then you need to shift the engine sprocket, shims are used for this so maybe you need to add or remove shims to get alignment correct.
If you need to remove shims and there are none to remove I would look at removing metal from the spacer or somewhere else at the engine end.

Now I'm probably reading your mail wrong - right
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline chaterlea25

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Re: Triumph 4 spring clutch (non cush type)
« Reply #3 on: 18.01. 2011 13:52 »
Hi kiwipom,
This is another of the problems with either retrofitting a 4 spring clutch or building a bike from parts
I was active on this topic previoulsy,
Points to note:
Make sure you do not have one of the clutch adaptors with the scroll cut the wrong way  *eek*
1 )The scroll should engage a fair bit into the sliding plate
2) The inner primary case should not be strained, there should be a spacer and 2 gaskets between it and the  crankcase and a spacer or washers between it and the frame mounting at the rear
3) "Normally" a heavy duty chain cannot be fitted, as they foul the inner case!
4) There are 2 different sleeves that fit on the crankshaft with different thickness shoulders
5) There are different shaft adaptors for twins and single cyl models, the patten ones can be bored reasonably easily
the originals are much much tougher and I would think have to be ground internally, this makes it harder to match the taper, which Must be a perfect fit on the shaft

HTH
John O R
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Offline kiwipom

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Re: Triumph 4 spring clutch (non cush type)
« Reply #4 on: 18.01. 2011 20:29 »
hi guys, thanks for the feedback but am still confused. if the engine sprocket was moved 5mm/3/16" would that not impact on the engine cush operation? i will take a couple of pics and post later,cheers, bob
A10.G.Flash(cafe racer)Honda 250 vtr. Yamaha Virago XV920.

War! what is it good for?Absolutely nothing, Edwin Star.
NewZealand

Online BSA_54A10

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Re: Triumph 4 spring clutch (non cush type)
« Reply #5 on: 18.01. 2011 21:14 »
Yes it will make it a little tighter to compensate for 60 years of wear and loss of temper in the spring.
Fit the spacer and the entire cush drive minus the spring.
If the 2 sides can slide over each other is all is fine.
If not yon can remove some meat from the back of the inner.
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Offline kiwipom

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Re: Triumph 4 spring clutch (non cush type)
« Reply #6 on: 19.01. 2011 04:15 »
hi guys, i hear what you are saying, a 5mm spacer behind the sprocket will only leave 3mm for the sprocket to bear on, the best that i think that i could do would be to space the sproket carrier out 2.5mm on the crank shaft and 2.5mm behind the sprocket, what do you think? do you not like the idea of recutting the taper to move it 5mm or has it not been done before what would be the out come? thanks for all the input i have incuded a few pics,cheers, bob
A10.G.Flash(cafe racer)Honda 250 vtr. Yamaha Virago XV920.

War! what is it good for?Absolutely nothing, Edwin Star.
NewZealand

Offline trevinoz

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Re: Triumph 4 spring clutch (non cush type)
« Reply #7 on: 19.01. 2011 06:14 »
Kiwipom,
              Have you actually got the spacer that fits between the bearing and the cush drive?
Trev.

Offline kiwipom

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Re: Triumph 4 spring clutch (non cush type)
« Reply #8 on: 19.01. 2011 06:22 »
hi trev, no, it was originaly fitted with a 6 spring unit so had no spacers,cheers,
bob
A10.G.Flash(cafe racer)Honda 250 vtr. Yamaha Virago XV920.

War! what is it good for?Absolutely nothing, Edwin Star.
NewZealand

Online bsa-bill

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Re: Triumph 4 spring clutch (non cush type)
« Reply #9 on: 19.01. 2011 09:20 »
Well spotted Trev, I had similar thought
Bob - spacer needs to be there with or without six spring clutch, it's got an internal taper on one side
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline chaterlea25

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Re: Triumph 4 spring clutch (non cush type)
« Reply #10 on: 19.01. 2011 12:31 »
HI Bob and All,
Another thing is that you have a 4 lobe cush drive assembly???
I have only seen this fitted to early plunger framed B models??? Open to correction here?????
I am now of the opinion that you do not have the correct cush drive inner sleeve, As I said in my previous reply there are 2 different thickness shoulders on the inside,
your crank sprocket looks too close to the crankcase???
Do you have crankshaft spacer 67-1138 fitted?
Any minor shimming required should be between this part and the cush drive sleeve 42-0069?? there is a separate pt no. for the other type

The clutch adaptor looks correctly placed, if it was any further inboard the taper would appear at the front

BSA_54A10 is not correct in saying that the cush drive should be able to slip!!! It should lock solidly before the cams ride over each other,
If the cush drive can ride over and does when the engine is under load damage to the bottom end will quickly happen
This is why it is ESSENTIAL to keep the cush drive nut FULLY TIGHT  *ex* *ex*

HTH
JOhn O R
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Offline trevinoz

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Re: Triumph 4 spring clutch (non cush type)
« Reply #11 on: 19.01. 2011 19:55 »
John,
             I think that the very first swinging arm A10s had a four lobe cush drive. Also the B series.
Trev.

Offline kiwipom

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Re: Triumph 4 spring clutch (non cush type)
« Reply #12 on: 20.01. 2011 06:11 »
Good work guys, found some info and so am posting some pics of it. Trev/bsa-bill you were exactly right, thanks for pointing me in the right direction, the info clearly shows the spacer and shim as you noted. All you guys know your stuff and is great to be able to tap into it from the other side of the world, certainly saved me from floundering in the dark. It seems that the plunger and early swinging arm machines had the four lobe set up and later changed to the two lobe system, i am going to try to source a complete two lobe set up so won`t have to think about moving that taper although i think it needs a clean up as it is not in top condition. I had wondered why the large spacer behind the timing cover was never there probably left out to compensate for no cush spacer, there are a few things that i could show you that would make you wonder about one or more of the previous owners,anyway guys once again thanks for the help it was great,cheers,
Bob 
A10.G.Flash(cafe racer)Honda 250 vtr. Yamaha Virago XV920.

War! what is it good for?Absolutely nothing, Edwin Star.
NewZealand

Offline A10Boy

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Re: Triumph 4 spring clutch (non cush type)
« Reply #13 on: 20.01. 2011 13:51 »
Dont forget the oil seal, it doesn't appear to be shown in the diagram [unless I need another visit to specsavers]. The cush spacer pushes onto the crankshaft with the internal chamfer towards the crank. The oil seal taps into the crankcase and the lip runs on the cush spacer. Early semi unit engines didnt have this seal, but I'm sure all pre unit models did.
Regards

Andy

1960 A10 - Black Golden Flash
Plus
1974 Kawasaki Z1a
Yam XJR 1300

Offline kiwipom

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Re: Triumph 4 spring clutch (non cush type)
« Reply #14 on: 20.01. 2011 19:34 »
hi guys, yes A10 boy the seal is there thanks for the concern i think that i am on the right track now this site is great, my biggist worry at the moment are the earthquakes that we are having here, the first thing that i do after a shock is check that the bike is still upright, have put a couple of tie-downs on it to make sure, cheers
Bob
A10.G.Flash(cafe racer)Honda 250 vtr. Yamaha Virago XV920.

War! what is it good for?Absolutely nothing, Edwin Star.
NewZealand