Author Topic: Ethanol/Petrol and the colour of plugs?  (Read 2825 times)

Offline LJ.

  • Peterborough UK.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2006
  • Posts: 1403
  • Karma: 15
  • The Red A10!
    • LJ's Website!
Ethanol/Petrol and the colour of plugs?
« on: 23.01. 2011 09:29 »
Looking at another thread... "Spit back through carb and backfires" http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php/topic,3693.msg25436/topicseen.html#msg25436 I can't help wondering if Ethanol is affecting the colour on plugs that we have been used to seeing.
Jim Lawnmowerman mentions...

Quote
never the chocolate brown colour they should be

Has anyone any thoughts about this?

Ride Safely Lads! LJ.
**********************
1940 BSA M20 500cc Girder/Rigid- (SOLD)
1947 BSA M21 600cc Girder/Rigid-Green
1949 BSA A7   500cc Girder/Plunger Star Twin-(SOLD)
1953 BSA B33  500cc Teles/Plunger-Maroon
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Blue
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Red

Offline lawnmowerman

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 624
  • Karma: 8
  • 1959 Super Rocket. Kent, England
Re: Ethanol/Petrol and the colour of plugs?
« Reply #1 on: 23.01. 2011 10:47 »
Hi LJ

I have a mate who has access to aviation fuel and have a 20L canful so I am going to run on that when I get the MOT done. There is no ethanol in avgas as they are not allowed to mess around with it for safety reasons. It costs a fortune but will be interesting to see if it makes any difference - should go a bit better as it is 103 octane  *smile*

Jim
1959 A10 SR
1938 Wolseley 14/60
1955 Ferguson TEF20 tractor
1965 Ferguson 135 tractor
1952 Matchless G80 rigid
1960 BMW R60
1954 Matchless G80S
1955 Ariel 500 VH
1951 Sunbeam S7DL
1960 Matchless G12 with Watsonian Monza
......and loads of lawnmowers

Too old to Rock and Roll but too young to die  (Jethro Tull 1976)

Offline bsa-bill

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 5720
  • Karma: 66
Re: Ethanol/Petrol and the colour of plugs?
« Reply #2 on: 23.01. 2011 11:10 »
Could be we are blaming Ethanol when the cause might be elsewhere, I'm thinking that the issue of black plugs might pre-date the use of Ethanol in our petrol.
Rather easy to just blame the latest change so we need to determine some facts first
When was Ethanol first put in petrol?
Could it have to do with the withdrawal of Lead
What else has changed in petrol since the days when our bikes were in daily use.
The views of anyone who uses an A10 on regular longish runs should be sought

Otherwise might as well put it down to the withdrawal of Green Shield stamps or the missing Tiger Tail sticking out of your tank *smiley4*
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline lawnmowerman

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 624
  • Karma: 8
  • 1959 Super Rocket. Kent, England
Re: Ethanol/Petrol and the colour of plugs?
« Reply #3 on: 23.01. 2011 11:35 »
Very true Bill.
Hopefully when I try the avgas it may reveal the way ahead as it has lead and no ethanol. It may be that I need to use it for a while to reveal any changes and I may need a second mortgage - it is about £1.90 a litre! It should be an interesting experiment though.
It may also have something to do with the current manufacturing standards of spark plugs - I think I have got some 60s plugs in a box somewhere............
Jim
1959 A10 SR
1938 Wolseley 14/60
1955 Ferguson TEF20 tractor
1965 Ferguson 135 tractor
1952 Matchless G80 rigid
1960 BMW R60
1954 Matchless G80S
1955 Ariel 500 VH
1951 Sunbeam S7DL
1960 Matchless G12 with Watsonian Monza
......and loads of lawnmowers

Too old to Rock and Roll but too young to die  (Jethro Tull 1976)

Offline sinbad

  • Uk north west coast
  • A's Good Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 73
  • Karma: 0
Re: Ethanol/Petrol and the colour of plugs?
« Reply #4 on: 23.01. 2011 14:22 »
 Hi Jim, regards your last comment abt 60s plugs I believe the letter R on current plugs stands for resistive I looked into a broken one and unless I missed something what I found was a large air gap. I don't think this is suited to our machines.
Rod.
Rod
1960 A10                             1998 Honda Cb 500
1953 sunbeam s7                   1988 Mz 250
1953 Nsu Consul 500 single        Jzr cx 500 Trike

Offline lawnmowerman

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 624
  • Karma: 8
  • 1959 Super Rocket. Kent, England
Re: Ethanol/Petrol and the colour of plugs?
« Reply #5 on: 23.01. 2011 14:43 »
Yes you are right Rod

I telephoned the help desk at NGK last year and they recommended a resistive plug and when I said they were not suited to mag ignition he said that they should work unless the mag is on the way out. In the end I went for non resistive plugs.

Jim
1959 A10 SR
1938 Wolseley 14/60
1955 Ferguson TEF20 tractor
1965 Ferguson 135 tractor
1952 Matchless G80 rigid
1960 BMW R60
1954 Matchless G80S
1955 Ariel 500 VH
1951 Sunbeam S7DL
1960 Matchless G12 with Watsonian Monza
......and loads of lawnmowers

Too old to Rock and Roll but too young to die  (Jethro Tull 1976)

Offline bsa-bill

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 5720
  • Karma: 66
Re: Ethanol/Petrol and the colour of plugs?
« Reply #6 on: 23.01. 2011 17:17 »
Just a thought guys but is there a difference between resistive plugs and resistor plug caps

Although thinking about it there was a practice ( maybe not a common one) back in the day of cutting HT leads and inserting pins in from each direction then joining the ends up to leave an air gap - alleged to give a better spark, never tried it myself
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 10777
  • Karma: 130
  • Lithgow NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: Ethanol/Petrol and the colour of plugs?
« Reply #7 on: 23.01. 2011 19:08 »
G'day all,
            I'm sure it's the unleaded fuel not the ethanol that's giving us black plugs. A hotter plug helps, say a B6ES in place of a B7ES. I never run ethanol blended fuel in any of my bikes.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline sinbad

  • Uk north west coast
  • A's Good Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 73
  • Karma: 0
Re: Ethanol/Petrol and the colour of plugs?
« Reply #8 on: 23.01. 2011 19:47 »
Hi Bill, there was a gadget came out called a booster or something had a pre-set gap in it,fitted in the plug lead they didn't catch on or last very long.R plugs are resistive as are some plug caps I use the non resistive rubber caps.
Rod.
Rod
1960 A10                             1998 Honda Cb 500
1953 sunbeam s7                   1988 Mz 250
1953 Nsu Consul 500 single        Jzr cx 500 Trike

Offline alanp

  • Plymouth, Devon
  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 473
  • Karma: 7
Re: Ethanol/Petrol and the colour of plugs?
« Reply #9 on: 23.01. 2011 20:03 »
Rod, as I understand it the 'booster' is/was the kiss of death to mags. I say 'is' because it's still out there on sale. I bought one new at an auto jumble last year and didn't fit it when I realised what it was.
Member of the 'Last of the Summer Wine Club - Jennycliff'.

Offline MG

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 949
  • Karma: 24
Re: Ethanol/Petrol and the colour of plugs?
« Reply #10 on: 23.01. 2011 20:43 »
Alan, is that the "booster" you were talking about?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MAGNETO-MOTOR-CYCLES-SPITFIRE-MULTISPARK-IGNITION-/270668024757?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item3f05124bb5

I almost bought one at an autojumble, just out of curiosity, to cut it open and see what wonderful world of sparking miracles was hidden in there  *smile* *eek*. But then decided to rather spend the 10 quid for some cold refreshments.  *beer*
1955 A7 Shooting Star
1956 A10 Golden Flash
1961 Matchless G12 CSR

www.histo-tech.at - Restoration, Repairs, Racing

Austria

Online groily

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2007
  • Posts: 1848
  • Karma: 31
    • www.brightsparkmagnetos.com
Re: Ethanol/Petrol and the colour of plugs?
« Reply #11 on: 23.01. 2011 21:49 »
The only mag I ever saw that had been running with these booster things in the plug leads had HT pick-ups that looked like pumice stone - literally - from arcing on the inside, and the HT winding (not long rewound) gave up soon after. That was a K2F on an 88 Dommie. Shouldn't need them, and like MG, best spend the money in the nearest beer tent.
As for ethanol, apart from having bad consequences for fuel lines made of old materials, I haven't noticed anything different in plug terms. French jungle juice is allegedly well 'ethanolised' but the plugs look just the same on my bikes (a bit black) as they have since unleaded came in. There's no benefit, generally speaking, in running on octane ratings higher than the engine needs NOT to pink or otherwise misbehave; but maybe there are a few more calories in 103 Avgas, a bit like in a chocolate éclair or a very good ale.
Broadly speaking, I'd say that any mildly-tuned engine that needs add-ons in any department to make it go has something on the cusp of failure or set up wrong. Resistor plug caps, like 'butterfly' Champions, seem to me to create no difficulties with mags, and the modern NGK jobs ditto.
Bill

Offline sinbad

  • Uk north west coast
  • A's Good Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 73
  • Karma: 0
Re: Ethanol/Petrol and the colour of plugs?
« Reply #12 on: 23.01. 2011 22:32 »
Alanp,I am amazed I thought that thing was killed off in the sixties, cheers Rod.   
Rod
1960 A10                             1998 Honda Cb 500
1953 sunbeam s7                   1988 Mz 250
1953 Nsu Consul 500 single        Jzr cx 500 Trike

Offline iansoady

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2010
  • Posts: 471
  • Karma: 9
Re: Ethanol/Petrol and the colour of plugs?
« Reply #13 on: 24.01. 2011 11:10 »
But as they say, there's one born every minute....
Ian.
1962 Golden Flash (arrived)
1955 Velo Viper/Venom (departed)
2004 Triumph Tiger 955i (staying)

Offline cus

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 305
  • Karma: 4
Re: Ethanol/Petrol and the colour of plugs?
« Reply #14 on: 01.02. 2011 22:27 »
My bike runs a 389 carb, b6es plugs & 98% oct. fuel. Runs beautifully on the
open road but hates town, ie. stop start traffic. Reading older posts, I changed
my slide from a 3 1/4 to a 4, & all is good now, plugs are good colour after idle
& town riding, new slide from Hitchcocks was chromed too, which I'm sure will
help with wear. A mate of mine also suggested going to a smaller needle jet to
cure richness, but at this stage all is fine,

regards, Cus
56 G/Flash project