Author Topic: oil pump removal A10  (Read 3676 times)

Offline nagrod

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oil pump removal A10
« on: 24.09. 2011 21:14 »
My '60 Super Rocket, A10 engine is so close to getting back on the road, but one thing I want to solve before that is a problem with the oil pump. Oil delivery seems fine with a steady return stream but the little tabs that are on the end of the worm drive gear have broken so that the spindle that the tach drive cable fits into is no longer driven by the worm gear. I can see this by removing the connection piece that the tach cable threads onto on the engine side. I have this part on order from SRM. But to replace it and see what is going on I need to remove the oil pump. My big question is after I remove the outer case does this give me access to the pump or are other things in the way. It's been years since I've done this and I've forgotten and my Haynes manual and service sheets offer little help. Next question is can the pump be removed in one piece or do I need to take it out in pieces, and lastly should I drain the tank first?
Thanks in advance for any and all answers!
Rick D
'Never again. But that's what I said the last time.'


Offline chaterlea25

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Re: oil pump removal A10
« Reply #1 on: 24.09. 2011 22:19 »
Hi Rick,

Drain the oil.
You can remove the oil pump after removing the outer cover
It will come out in one piece
Forget what the Haynes says about undoing the crank nut etc!
Lock a second 1/4 BSF nut to the nuts on the pump studs then unscrew the studs from the crankcase
this will let the pump drop out of engagement with the worm drive on the crank
It can be a bit finniky to get the circlip out that holds in the drive gear in the pump  *conf*

Fit a new greased gasket to the pump on replacing, I dont like the idea of a fibre washer on the front stud
I mahe a one piece gasket that takes in the 3 studs
SRM use an A65 gasket but that needs to be cut or folded

HTH
John O R

1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Offline nagrod

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Re: oil pump removal A10
« Reply #2 on: 25.09. 2011 21:27 »
Thanks John - Sounds like a good plan. I am thinking I can use the nut from one stud to use as a locking nut on the other and then swap the two. If all goes as planned I'll give it a try tomorrow! Thanks again for the help!

Rick D
'Never again. But that's what I said the last time.'


Offline nagrod

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Re: oil pump removal A10
« Reply #3 on: 26.09. 2011 14:33 »
The studs are out and the pump is off. Now I just need to wait for the part from SRM and back it all goes! Getting the studs out was easier than I expected. The nuts used to hold the pump in place were too thick to both fit on the stud and lock together so I borrowed two with a thinner profile from the tach mount, locked them up tight and it worked beautifully! Now if I could only figure out why the two ears on the driven spindle broke! I'll probably take two pics and post a separate question. Thanks again.

Rick D
'Never again. But that's what I said the last time.'


Offline dpaddock

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Re: oil pump removal A10
« Reply #4 on: 27.09. 2011 04:21 »
In my notes somewhere there is a caveat re the oil pump mounting gaskets. I recall that the round fibre washer is thicker than the paper gasket, and if the pump is assembled without noting this difference, it will not seat properly. As a result, the pump body will distort and eventually break.
A search of the Forum files will confirm this (or not).
Perhaps I'm wrong, but do check this out.
David
David
'57 Spitfire


Offline nagrod

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Re: oil pump removal A10
« Reply #5 on: 27.09. 2011 15:02 »
Thanks David, I think you have found the answer to my question of how this happened in the first place(broken tach drive). When I removed the pump there was the paper gasket but no fiber gasket on the forward stud. I had the pump out some years ago and must have put it back without that forward gasket. I think this may have cocked the center line of the pump off from the centerline of the tach drive spindle allowing it to stress the tangs on the worm gear and eventually break them. See my other post "oil pump driven tach drive broken" in this forum.

Rick D
'Never again. But that's what I said the last time.'


Offline shabashow

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Re: oil pump removal A10
« Reply #6 on: 29.09. 2011 19:48 »
When I built my A10 up I mounted the pump temporarily on the two studs and gasket and found a suitable diameter steel washer to take up the place of the fiber washer. I ground it down to the right thickness so it would just slide in under the front stud hole. That way I could be sure that when I mounted it permanently, there was no way the pump body could distort. Don't know why we rely on a fiber washer, which can come in varying thickness and compressabilities, instead of using my method. As far as I know I'm the only one doing it this way. If there's something wrong with this method, I'd like to know. So far, its given no problems after about 5000 miles.

Offline chaterlea25

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Re: oil pump removal A10
« Reply #7 on: 29.09. 2011 23:44 »
Hi shabashow,
I'm puzzled as to why you think a steel washer is needed???
The surface on the crankcase should be flat
The oilpump should be flat
So why introduce a solid object between them?
The gasket betweem them will compress somewhat, where does that leave the steel washer?

I make a one piece gasket which spans all three mounting studs
that way they all get tightened the same and the gasket compresses equally across the joint

Anyway thats my method??

Cheers
John O R
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Online trevinoz

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Re: oil pump removal A10
« Reply #8 on: 29.09. 2011 23:49 »
I agree, John.
                           The pumps always need to be checked for "flat" across all 3 mounting points.
They are not always so!
                                       Trev.

Online RichardL

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Re: oil pump removal A10
« Reply #9 on: 29.09. 2011 23:56 »
SRM now supplies a one-piece gasket,  as  John describes.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2017 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDE on September 30, 2018. Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Offline chaterlea25

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Re: oil pump removal A10
« Reply #10 on: 30.09. 2011 15:28 »
Hi All,
The gasket SRM supply is an A65 one, these have the mounting studs farther apart for the 3rd stud
its neccessary to fold or cut this to avoid the springiness(??) of the material pushing the gasket towards the rear wheel
The gasket holes are a loose fit on the studs  *sad2*
You may ask what difference this makes ????
Well!!! Apart from the oil holes being somewhat misaligned
If theres the modified ball and spring setup fitted, which has the ball seating on the back of the pump
the gasket can interfere with the ball seating properly  *ex*
Wet sumping is then inevitable  *sad2* *sad2*
These are the reasons I make my own oil pump gaskets, individual to each crankcase, as the oil holes can vary a bit!!
All this was learned the hard way  *conf*

HTH
John O R
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Online RichardL

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Re: oil pump removal A10
« Reply #11 on: 30.09. 2011 15:54 »
John,

Thank you. My apologies for not checking the part number (they don't mention the model) before jumping to conclusions. Even if it had been perfect for length and hole diameters, I would not have guessed that the placement of the oil holes would vary. However, now that I think about it, I suppose the holes are too close together to be drilled all at once with a multi-spindle drill head and a fixture carrying all the drill bushings.

In case anyone bought one of these (the gasket in question, that is) after I posted and before John posted, it could be on me, less postage. Send a PM.

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2017 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDE on September 30, 2018. Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Offline chaterlea25

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Re: oil pump removal A10
« Reply #12 on: 30.09. 2011 17:16 »
Hi Richard
The SRM gasket will work provided care is taken as I already described!
I am probably (I am) an exceptionally fussy Bas***d
I just hate having to go back into an engine to rectify silly problems that can be avoided with some extra
attention to detail during the build
Near enough is never good enough for me *eek*

Regards
John O R
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Offline dpaddock

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Re: oil pump removal A10
« Reply #13 on: 01.10. 2011 16:32 »
Page 93 of Bacon's Twins book reveals why the round washer should be used. For pre-unit twins, the oil pump face and the stud face are not co-planar.

David
David
'57 Spitfire


Offline shabashow

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Re: oil pump removal A10
« Reply #14 on: 02.10. 2011 15:23 »
Thanks David,

I knew there was a logical reason for me to fabriacte a suitably thick (thin, really) washer, apart from not being able to source the proper item at the time.

John