Author Topic: No Charging  (Read 1676 times)

Offline Black Flash

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 42
  • Karma: 2
  • 1961 Golden Flash
No Charging
« on: 21.11. 2011 23:46 »
Hi All;
It has been a while since I spoke about a charging problem on the GF but I have been somewhat successful.
I decided to order a couple of manuals and do some research first, the Haynes workshop manual (which seems to
have a love/hate relationship with many of you) which I have received, and the Book of BSA Twins by Clymer and
republished from the Haycraft version, which I haven't received yet. I already have a Chilton's book that my Dad had.
The Haynes book was pretty straightforward. Remove the cover on the dynamo and check the brushes to be free and have plenty of wear left yet. They looked good. This brought up question # 1. Do the brush retainer springs have
enough strength to allow brush removal without other parts being removed? I wanted to check the wear surface but
was unwilling to remove them at this time.
Check the contact area of the armature for discoloration and clean with petrol if neccessary or very fine emery cloth.
It was very black and did clean up some with petrol. I very lightly tried some emery paper but it looked like it could be easily overdone. Question #2. Has anyone used modern day electrical cleaner that you can get for computer components or do you know of something better? After running the engine now and checking for charge the dynamo was now putting out between 7 and 8 volts. Still no indication of charge on the amp gauge. On to the regulator.
Next post.
Gary
1961 A10 GF
NC

Offline Black Flash

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 42
  • Karma: 2
  • 1961 Golden Flash
Re: No Charging
« Reply #1 on: 22.11. 2011 00:02 »
The cover did come off rather easily (why not try this), I can always get a new one? This revealed the second problem. The contacts
were dirty and appeared to be building up corrosion like ignition points are wont to do. After some cleaning and running the engine
some more the amp gauge does show a charge at times. At idle it shows a small discharge with the light switch off. With a small
increase in rpm it moves into the positive range slightly. Turning the headlight on increases the range of movement dramatically with
similar rpms. Last question: Do these indications appear somewhat normal keeping in mind that I have only run the engine in the shop and not on the road yet, and I have a new battery that I keep charged with a maintenance charger.
Any comments will be greatly appreciated. If more info is needed I will add it also.
Thanks, Gary
Gary
1961 A10 GF
NC

Offline Hubie

  • Dave Huybens
  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Feb 2010
  • Posts: 366
  • Karma: 4
Re: No Charging
« Reply #2 on: 22.11. 2011 03:08 »
Hi Gary,

There are those (most) who know more about this than I do, but I would be checking your regulator.  What type do you have?  You should show a decent charge on your ammeter when you give the bike a rev, but then again, your ammeter may be dying too!

Cheers,
Dave.
1959 BSA Golden Flash
1956 Royal Enfield Super Meteor
1955 Royal Enfield 350 Bullet
2007 Harley Davidson Sportster 1200 Custom

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse get's the cheese!

Offline LJ.

  • Peterborough UK.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2006
  • Posts: 1403
  • Karma: 15
  • The Red A10!
    • LJ's Website!
Re: No Charging
« Reply #3 on: 22.11. 2011 09:02 »
Hi Gary... sounds as if you have the job sussed out already.

Electrical cleaning spray is best as it evaporates quicker and leaves no residue as you may find with petrol these days, it also safer than petrol. Lifting the springs to remove brushes is fine, I don't think there is really any need to take them out and are best left alone as the copper wire that attaches the carbon brush can easily be detached if not careful. If your going to use emery paper then I find its best when dynamo is spinning and then spraying off the dirt and drying with a rag on finger, taking care not to get any solvent on the copper wires.

The ammeter is a somewhat crude instrument and wont show much reading into the positive if your battery is fully charged as you say.
Ride Safely Lads! LJ.
**********************
1940 BSA M20 500cc Girder/Rigid- (SOLD)
1947 BSA M21 600cc Girder/Rigid-Green
1949 BSA A7   500cc Girder/Plunger Star Twin-(SOLD)
1953 BSA B33  500cc Teles/Plunger-Maroon
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Blue
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Red

Offline bikerbob

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 531
  • Karma: 7
Re: No Charging
« Reply #4 on: 22.11. 2011 18:47 »
Hi there
This reminds me of a problem that I had some years ago when I restored my Gold Flash I had the dynamo overhauled and it run perfectly for about 6 months then it stopped charging so I went back to my dealer friend at the time and he straight away daignosed the fault. He said that a dynamo needs to work otherwise it will stop working he said that as I only rode during the day and never used my lights the dynamo was not working hard enough so carbon builds up on the copper segments from the brushes I cleaned the segments up with fine emery paper put it back on the bike and since then every time I go for a run I put the lights on for about half the run and have had no problems since.

Online trevinoz

  • Newcastle, N.S.W. Australia.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2006
  • Posts: 2877
  • Karma: 67
Re: No Charging
« Reply #5 on: 22.11. 2011 21:00 »
Gary,
             Dirty regulator points will stop the generator charging. As you have found, the regulator points tend to get a build up of corrosion which is an insulator. The cut-out points don't seem to get this problem but they are silver and the regulator points are tungsten.
Try checking the voltage across the battery with the engine running. If you get 7.2v or so and it doesn't drop below say 6.5V with the lights on, I would leave it be.
The regulator is fairly easy to adjust, get a set of service sheets for details.
With a fully charged battery, you shouldn't see a high charge on the ammeter. If the ammeter is showing slightly positive with the lights on and some revving, it seems OK.

  Trev.

Offline Black Flash

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 42
  • Karma: 2
  • 1961 Golden Flash
Re: No Charging
« Reply #6 on: 23.11. 2011 00:01 »
Thanks for the replies.
Hubie: The regulator is an original Lucas and appears to have been opened previously. I don't know why and the tabs on the cover are probably not going to take anymore bending. I will wait until I have a few runs on it to see if any problems crop up or adjustments are needed.
BikerBob; A good tip to give the charging system some exercise each time out. This won't be a problem here since we are required to have our headlight on by law. It's one of the reasons for my spending this much time getting it working.
Thanks, Gary
Gary
1961 A10 GF
NC

Offline Hubie

  • Dave Huybens
  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Feb 2010
  • Posts: 366
  • Karma: 4
Re: No Charging
« Reply #7 on: 23.11. 2011 20:59 »
Hi Gary,

If you're required to runs lights all the time, I would suggest to run LED lighting.  Bugger all current draw and you still comply with legal requirements.  I have 6 volt LED's in everything - tail/stop lamp, instrument lamp and pilot lamp - and all work brilliant.  Got the lot required from Paul Goff.

Cheers,
Hubie.
1959 BSA Golden Flash
1956 Royal Enfield Super Meteor
1955 Royal Enfield 350 Bullet
2007 Harley Davidson Sportster 1200 Custom

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse get's the cheese!

Offline Black Flash

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 42
  • Karma: 2
  • 1961 Golden Flash
Re: No Charging
« Reply #8 on: 25.11. 2011 14:29 »
GM All;
Hubie:
I do have LED lights on the long list of wants. I looked at the Goff ones, very nice.
The list of needs will have to take priority for now. Would anyone like to comment
on the new replica Lucas regulators vs the electronic ones? A spare one is on my list.
Thanks, Gary
Gary
1961 A10 GF
NC

Offline Qball

  • Keep your knees in the breeze
  • Moving Up
  • **
  • Join Date: Nov 2011
  • Posts: 20
  • Karma: 1
Re: No Charging
« Reply #9 on: 25.11. 2011 18:18 »
On the same thought train as garry has anyone used the podronic setup?  I am missing the regulator from my basket case and dont know which way to go with it?

Quinton
1952 A7 plunger
1979 CB 750
1967 Ducati sebring 350

Offline Hubie

  • Dave Huybens
  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Feb 2010
  • Posts: 366
  • Karma: 4
Re: No Charging
« Reply #10 on: 27.11. 2011 00:28 »
I have the DVR2 regulator from dynamo regulators.  Great bit of kit and you can run it 6 or 12 volts.  Got their belt drive kit for the dynamo on the way too.

Cheers,
Hubie.
1959 BSA Golden Flash
1956 Royal Enfield Super Meteor
1955 Royal Enfield 350 Bullet
2007 Harley Davidson Sportster 1200 Custom

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse get's the cheese!

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 8162
  • Karma: 106
  • Lake Conjola NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: No Charging
« Reply #11 on: 27.11. 2011 08:33 »
I'll second Hubbie, got'em on both of mine.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline chilblayth

  • Moving Up
  • **
  • Join Date: Dec 2011
  • Posts: 21
  • Karma: 0
Re: No Charging
« Reply #12 on: 15.12. 2011 19:08 »
to test insulation  you need either a multimeter or a continuity tester (bulb and battery)     touch one lead to a copper segment on the commutator  and the other lead  to the metal shaft/spindle of the armature , there should not be a circuit  or the bulb should not light !!!!    if it does the insulation on the windings is failing/failed  and needs rewinding  *sad2*  another way is to try to `motor the dynamo  ie apply current to the output connections to see if it rotates !     these tests although not perfect help tp build a general idea of how good the dynamo is ,  oh  probably best not to exceed 12 volts  ;)

Offline Black Flash

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 42
  • Karma: 2
  • 1961 Golden Flash
Re: No Charging
« Reply #13 on: 19.12. 2011 00:21 »
Hi chilblayth; Thanks for the info. I have over 350 miles on as of today and everything is looking good. The dynamo only needed some cleaning, the regulator took some more work than that. After cleaning both sets of points it still wasn't charging so I opened it up again. The cut-out relay wouldn't close without some manual help but after some adjustment it started working. The voltage side does seem to be ok now. The ammeter is responding correctly and the battery is being maintained even with the lights on.  *smiley4* I probably won't open it up again as the cover tabs have seen their better days. A new electronic regulator is on the "want it" list but will have to wait for now. The "get it rideable" budget took a big hit as the new silencers, Surflex clutch disks, front and rear brake shoes and a couple of other necessities arrived this week. I am riding so I am happy about that altho today was a two warm layers of clothes day. Sunny and 50 degrees.  *smile* Hoping to get to 500 miles before the really cold weather gets here. Gary
Gary
1961 A10 GF
NC