Author Topic: Front wheel / Brakes options  (Read 5470 times)

Offline tenko

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Front wheel / Brakes options
« on: 21.02. 2012 09:03 »
Having ridden and thorougly enjoyed my new (to me) 1958 A10, i have come the  conclusion i simply have to do something about the front end brakes,i may as well just put my feet down it would be better than using the front brake.My question to the great oracles of the beeza, Which is the best way forward?  Is there a wheel from another model that would significantly improve said brakes? Or is there a more modern fix that would easily go on the front and not change its look too much(sorry to all the bods that think original).
While i am now thinking about stopping distances a lot more (can't be a bad thing)The more i am using it, the more confident of its capabilities i am becoming,but less so with my ability to stop quickly should the need arise.

Offline tombeau

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #1 on: 21.02. 2012 10:09 »
Hi there,

Do a search on this forum for BSA/Triumph TLS (Twin Leading shoe brake) It should be fairly well documented.
They require either modifying of the brakeplate slot, or the peg on the fork leg to fit. The brakeplate fits some A10 hubs, but not all (can't remember which ones), The corresponding BSA/Triumph hub can also be used.
Popular conversion, works very well.

Having said that, your brakes may just need set up, have ridden other peoples A10s with standard brakes which felt fine to me, not as good as the TLS, but perfectly up to the job.

Cheers,
Iain

Offline LJ.

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #2 on: 21.02. 2012 11:05 »
Ditto to what Iain says...

I have a twin leading shoe brake plate on one A10 and a standard 8" full width single leading shoe on the other A10. No doubt the tls is the better of the two sets but my sls is also very good.

I have found that the biggest difference is in the shoe linings and I have gone to the trouble of fitting, although hazardous, and precautions should be taken, the older Ferrodo linings. I've not had much luck with the bonded harder linings, with those I think closer setting up and skimming of the brake drum is required.

I have wondered though... if the NON leading shoe should be a little more worn away than the leading primary (if you like) shoe? So that better contact and stopping power on the leading shoe can be achieved. Any ideas on this anyone? Because, thinking about it... If the non leading shoe contacts the drum first then that shoe's contact would lessen the leading shoes friction on the drum resulting in a weaker operating brake.

Tenko... Looking at your front brake hub, it looks to be a 7"? acquiring an 8" hub will make a big improvement. When looking for another hub always check that the hub has not been over skimmed.  *smile*
Ride Safely Lads! LJ.
**********************
1940 BSA M20 500cc Girder/Rigid- (SOLD)
1947 BSA M21 600cc Girder/Rigid-Green
1949 BSA A7   500cc Girder/Plunger Star Twin-(SOLD)
1953 BSA B33  500cc Teles/Plunger-Maroon
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Blue
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Red

Offline Topdad

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #3 on: 21.02. 2012 12:02 »
Good morning Tenko, yes BSA'S brakes can be "interesting" but of course in there day were pretty much adequate but what with todays traffic and 50 odd years wear and tear you get to where you are now. I've never loved either the ariel hubs or the iron full width one's you have , I had a shooting star with those hubs and it was pretty much as you describe yours ,i got a chance of a 8" goldie brake and with that fitted the braking was great ,unfortunately i then decided to run into a bus on her which didn't do much for that brake as you would guess ,not the brakes fault the wheel was locked but on loose gravel !!! When i rebuilt the bike back in 2000 I was grateful that the forks offered were of the early 8" A10 single sided and I can report that, that to ,is excellent.
I'd check the condition of the linnings and the hub for wear and it being oval ,the cable to see if it's stretched, even the angle of the brake activation arm .
if you're just not happy with it I'd keep my eye open for an 8" single sider personally I think they are the bee's knees and couldn't care less what the rivet counters say it's my (and yours ) neck.
finally there was also an article 'bout 8 mths ago in classic bike guide about a company  who specalise in classic brakes and they were talking about a modern equivalent to the famous "green linnings" beloved by some which received some very good comments from customer, best of luck BobH
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Offline Beezageezauk

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #4 on: 21.02. 2012 14:20 »
Hi Tenko,

I agree with what the other guys have advised but will also add a couple of points.

As LJ mentioned, I also thought that your front hub looked as if it was a 7 incher and I would suggest that you looked out for an 8 inch cast iron full width hub and match it up to the twin leading shoe type brake.  This is what I have on my long distance A10 and it's more than adequate even though I am, more often than not, loaded up with camping gear and travelling at speed on motorways.

If you were to go down the 8 inch single sided hub route you will also need to source a pair of front fork bottoms to suit and then change them over because the different hubs and fork bottoms are not compatible with each other.

Beezageezauk.


Offline Topdad

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #5 on: 21.02. 2012 14:57 »
whoops ,as beezageezauk says forgot to mention the forks sorry BobH
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Offline tenko

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #6 on: 21.02. 2012 17:07 »
I measured the front, its an 8 inch full width jobbie,everything looks spanking inside,so i might have to bed the shoes in,i've only done 300 or so miles since i bought it.
 With that in mind ,off off i went, posing slowly for the foreigners through windsor,revelling in the glorious sound it makes,decided to go visit my mother,i got about half a mile(luckily) or so from my house just entering a roundabout,serious grinding noise,loss of drive,clutch lever goes to the handlebar,look everywhere luckily nothing coming at speed,coast to side of road. Pushed B####y thing home
swearing incessantly inside helmet.
Took chain cover off - clutch centre nut worked loose, complete clutch assembly loose on main shaft, again i think "lucky" has been on my side today,just a little scrapped of the inside of the primary cover.
http://i40.tinypic.com/2ni5zl2.jpg
Have taken the complete clutch off,and its a little on the tired side ,where is the best place to get a complete 4 spring replacement clutch, or does anyone have one they wish to sell?

adm edit: img tags removed, use thumbnails only when linking to external hosting.


Sorry

Offline LJ.

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #7 on: 21.02. 2012 19:42 »
Doh! sorry to hear of your mishap and that little damage has occurred, could have been far worse. Obviously previous owner did not tighten up that nut nor did he use a locking washer or it was not turned over properly. If clutch had been operating okay in the last 300 miles then I'd be inclined to refit it for a little longer. Best check and see what else is poorly maintained.  :!
Ride Safely Lads! LJ.
**********************
1940 BSA M20 500cc Girder/Rigid- (SOLD)
1947 BSA M21 600cc Girder/Rigid-Green
1949 BSA A7   500cc Girder/Plunger Star Twin-(SOLD)
1953 BSA B33  500cc Teles/Plunger-Maroon
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Blue
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Red

Offline Beezageezauk

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #8 on: 21.02. 2012 19:53 »
Tenko,

If the bike has only done 300 miles since it was fitted with new brake shoes the previous owner might not have adjusted them properly and you might get improvement by trying the following:-

Slacken the top fulcrum nut (the large one beside the brakeplate slot) but don't remove it.  With the nut slackened put the brake on and hold it on while you tighten the nut up again.  The hole in the brakeplate is much bigger than the diameter of the fulcrum and this allows some movement for the brake shoes to be aligned with the brake drum.  This should be done every time new shoes are fitted but should not be readjusted once the shoes have fully bedded in with the drum.  I think you will be ok if the bike has only covered 300 miles but if the brake is as bad as you infer I reckon you can't make it any worse.  

Sorry I can't help with clutch parts.

Beezageezauk.

Offline t20racerman

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #9 on: 21.02. 2012 21:05 »
Like you, I found the A10 brakes rubbish (I do ride hard and fast) and tried a Triumph/A65 type 8" tls brake. This was good, very good, BUT the forks (correct ones for tls) couldn't cope - when braking they juddered and twisted under hard braking. I tried to update the forks with new bushes, stantions etc, but still no good.

I then went radical - I replaced the front forks and wheel with a 1972 GT750 double sided 4LS hub and forks, fitted in BSA yokes. It looks superb and period too, with the gaiters up being original. To complete the job I fitted a matching GT750 rear wheel too. the handling is far better, the braking awesome, and it looks lovely. Perhaps surprisingly most people looking at my bike don't even notice at first! If you want a proper fix, there is no better way in my opinion. 4LS hubs cost about £300 if you can get one.

Pictures are on this forum somewhere already, I'll add a link when I find it.  *smile*
1961 A10 - somewhat modified :-)
1980 TZ350 - lunatic Classic Race machine
1967 T20 Suzuki - heavily modified Classic Racer
1967 T20 Suzuki - pretty standard road bike
2007 KTM 660 SMC - fast and furious supermoto
Triumph 675 Speed triple
Ossa 250 and yet another T20 racer in bits both being built up

"If I had all the money back that I've spent on motorcycles... I'd spend it all on motorcycles!"

Online Brian

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #10 on: 21.02. 2012 21:08 »
As regards the clutch, I recently bought a complete new four spring from Burton's and was pleasantly surprised with the quality of it. Well made and fitted straight on without any need for "fettling".

Offline t20racerman

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #11 on: 21.02. 2012 21:12 »
A recent pic was of my bike on the way to the Dragon Rally 10 days ago:

1961 A10 - somewhat modified :-)
1980 TZ350 - lunatic Classic Race machine
1967 T20 Suzuki - heavily modified Classic Racer
1967 T20 Suzuki - pretty standard road bike
2007 KTM 660 SMC - fast and furious supermoto
Triumph 675 Speed triple
Ossa 250 and yet another T20 racer in bits both being built up

"If I had all the money back that I've spent on motorcycles... I'd spend it all on motorcycles!"

Offline chilblayth

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #12 on: 23.02. 2012 13:39 »
hey t20racerman  the 4ls  and matching gt750 wheels sounds superb !!  got any pics to post ?
i often get uneasy feelings (i try to suppress) that an a10 with some japanese bits ie forks wheels brakes suspension , might be quite a decent machine ! *conf*   HERESY  i know but worth a thought  ;) 
 i had a gt750 late 70s  and i loved it !!!   i`d have another but theyre out of my price bracket  *sad2* 
sadly i dont think you`d get a 4ls from one of these either as the early models that had these are most sought after  *sad2*  shame i think ---- sometimes classic bike has a lot to answer for !!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Offline t20racerman

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #13 on: 23.02. 2012 20:25 »
hey t20racerman  the 4ls  and matching gt750 wheels sounds superb !!  got any pics to post ?

I posted one above!  *smile* But I never tire of showing off my Lovely Beeza so here are two more.
Don't worry about using japanese stuff - You are trying to make the bike as good as you can, in a way that suits you, the owner. Some wonderful perfectly original bikes on this forum, and some wonderful heavily modded ones too. All lovely.  *smile*
1961 A10 - somewhat modified :-)
1980 TZ350 - lunatic Classic Race machine
1967 T20 Suzuki - heavily modified Classic Racer
1967 T20 Suzuki - pretty standard road bike
2007 KTM 660 SMC - fast and furious supermoto
Triumph 675 Speed triple
Ossa 250 and yet another T20 racer in bits both being built up

"If I had all the money back that I've spent on motorcycles... I'd spend it all on motorcycles!"

Offline chilblayth

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #14 on: 23.02. 2012 21:48 »
oh that is so nice  *smile*   i like that chunky style on a bike and the wheels look like they were made for it just all blends together !!!!!     spot   on     sort of `modernish  a10`   ;)