Author Topic: Front wheel / Brakes options  (Read 5466 times)

Offline tenko

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #15 on: 23.02. 2012 22:29 »
Have you seen the prices of the 4ls brakes,there is a couple on evilbay ,a gold star front in excess of 500 with days to go and a grimeca reserve not yet met at 350, and as for trying to get some gt750 wheels nowadays --well rocking horse poo  comes too mind,and even if you fnd some ,you can bet its an arm and a leg to seperate them from the machine.
But that is a nice looking bike you've got there racerman.

Online Brian

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #16 on: 23.02. 2012 22:33 »
Tenko where did you take the measurement on your brakes ? The internal diameter of the brake drum should measure 8". The outside diameter of the hub on a 8" front brake is about 9 1/2".

Offline chilblayth

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #17 on: 23.02. 2012 23:12 »
good useable cheap stuff is suzuki bandit 600/1200 suspension /brakes /forks etc ,,,   loads on ebay at decent prices ,but the standard calipers can be replace by TOKICO 6 pots if you prefer !!!!!   now those really would stop an a10  *eek*     

Offline tenko

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #18 on: 24.02. 2012 08:11 »
Hey beezageeza, that helped a little,still leaves a lot to be desired though.

Brian, just remeasured see piccie, it would now appear i have a 7 inch front brake(learning all the time),i didnt realise it was the internal diameter used to clarify which is which,as you can just about see on piccie just over 8 inch external diameter,thanks.


A bit clearer here

http://i42.tinypic.com/20kveok.jpg

Online Brian

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #19 on: 24.02. 2012 08:45 »
Definitely a 7" Tenko.

It shouldnt be too hard to find a 8" which your bike should have. On the brake side does the "U" shaped piece on the backing plate fit correctly onto the lug on the fork leg. If it looks a bit low then you have the right forks so the 8" will fit straight in.

Although the full width 8" is not the best brake in the world they can work quite well with the right linings. If you decide to put a 8" in try and find some original Ferodo linings for the shoes. Most modern linings and shoes you buy are no good, they are simply too hard for a cable operated brake.

Offline LJ.

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #20 on: 24.02. 2012 10:06 »
Just a note on re-lining brake shoes...

With old linings removed and shoe surface clean I then glue the lining to shoe, [note that glue is ONLY for holding lining in place while drilling and counter sinking lining, the glue is NO GOOD on its own for braking!] Its important that the rivets are a perfect fit through the lining and into shoe, a good counter sink, not too deep, with a specially home made punch to rest rivet on while punching to preen over on the reverse side, its best to have an extra pair of hands to help hold shoe while doing this. Any movement of lining with rivets in but before they are punched home, could result in lining being ripped off when hard braking.

The shoe in the picture is ready for my M20 but the same work is done for an A10.



Note: I'm not a qualified expert, have the shoes relined by a qualified professional if your in any doubt about your competence.
Ride Safely Lads! LJ.
**********************
1940 BSA M20 500cc Girder/Rigid- (SOLD)
1947 BSA M21 600cc Girder/Rigid-Green
1949 BSA A7   500cc Girder/Plunger Star Twin-(SOLD)
1953 BSA B33  500cc Teles/Plunger-Maroon
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Blue
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Red

Offline tenko

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #21 on: 09.03. 2012 19:52 »
I have finally sorted out my front brake issues,managed to get hold of a 7 inch tls brake(has original asbestos linings)2 finger progressive braking, brilliant,this along with new steels in my clutch completley transform the ride. More than likely what it should have been all along. But What a difference.


Out for a good couple of hours today with a big fat stupid grin on my face,hard to beat days like today.

Online Rocket Racer

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #22 on: 14.07. 2012 02:43 »
I have wondered though... if the NON leading shoe should be a little more worn away than the leading primary (if you like) shoe? So that better contact and stopping power on the leading shoe can be achieved. Any ideas on this anyone? Because, thinking about it... If the non leading shoe contacts the drum first then that shoe's contact would lessen the leading shoes friction on the drum resulting in a weaker operating brake.
sadly many of our brake issues relate to poor set up rather than design, however the question of trailing vs leading shoe interests me. The trailing shoe has less friction so would typically wear less if given the chance, however the lever lift will force comparable wear on both; so rather the effort going into the trailing shoe is largely wasted.
If you look at the daytona bikes of the mid fifties, BSA changed the lever arm direction around on the front wheel so it faces forward, this was also done on the later pre unit A series on the back wheel where the rear lever runs under rather than over the hub. What this does is increases the lift on the leading shoe as the brake cam inner edge lifts the leading shoe and the outer edge lifts the trailing shoe. The inner face of the cam (if parallel) lifts that shoe relatively higher.
The other thing of course done on the last of the A10's was floating brake shoes which enables the brakes to initiate a servo action, which could cause biting, so the pads were both offset and chamfered.

Am considering what brakes to run on my road A10 and have not come to a conclusion. -Not urgent though as its still in bits.
My sidecars running paired up single sided 8" SLS, extremely effective but too heavy for a solo.
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Offline duTch

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #23 on: 14.07. 2012 09:22 »
Good point RR,
                    I been wondering about that, as the rigids if I'm not mistaken have the Rear operating arm 'up', and I'm told work well, then the early plungers went down and a shorter arm-!? I had one of these short arms on(very ineffective) but found a longer one, and have had in mind to run the rod over the top of the axle- gotta get it going again first!!
 You wrote it well, would've taken me a week, good encouragement for me to experiment.
 Cheers, duTch.
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #24 on: 14.07. 2012 12:02 »
duTch,
 glad you liked my musing. when I do get my road '60 A10 mobile (nicknamed Rusty), I intend to experiment with floating shoes, I think the self servo action that is then applied to the trailing shoes offers significant promise for improved efficiency.
If you consider the pad area on a typical disk brake its usually bugger all, but the pads do operate very effectively against the disk and cool well.
Improving the effectiveness of a relatively modest shoe contact area is worth following up, so while pad fit and material are important, there is also capability to go to hydraulic (single or tls) drum or for that matter try floating shoes. All offer interesting alternatives!
I only considered the logic of the direction of brake cam lift after pondering the BSA daytona specials building my race sidecar. Its brakes are frigging awesome and I can outbrake most disk braked small wheeled chairs *yeah*
The one advantage of the later A10 iron brake is it should dissipate heat fairly well, although due to the narrow shoes may eat brake pads .
 
Cheers
Tim 
A good rider periodically checks all nuts and bolts with a spanner to see that they are tight - Instruction Manual for BSA B series, p46, para 2.
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Offline duTch

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #25 on: 14.07. 2012 14:20 »
Sorry mate I got up to here,
Quote
brakes are frigging awesome and I can outbrake most disk braked small wheeled chairs
,
 and read it as '....can out-brake most small wheelchairs'.. sorry when I compose myself, I'll have another go!

     Cheers
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline taroha10

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #26 on: 14.07. 2012 22:19 »
Hi Tenko,
I put a twin leading shoe front on a 59 flash a few years back. It was always great the first time you used it on any one trip.After that it would judder like mad.I didn't experiment or investigate too much I must admit. However,in the end I put the whole front end off a T140 on it. .I used to ride it very hard so the disc was a must and it sat a little higher which also seemed to be good.I bought a taper roller conversion from SRM ( which I seem to remember they said was their last on at the time) to fit the forks and used a honda master cylinder. My super rocket has what I believe is a modified gold star item.It has an air scoop and the plate has been drilled.This works well. One day I will post some pics for identification.
Good luck with whatever you do.
Cheers Mark

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #27 on: 15.07. 2012 00:04 »
Its always a compromise at the end of the day between originality (crap brakes), some degree of period relevance (later tls drums) or flagging originality for some modern (t140 disk) braking ability.
Trying to eke some braking efficiency out of the originals with minimal visible changes always worth pursuing.
I'd like to trial a hydraulic conversion at some point, the hub looks solid enough.

I'm going to retain my '60 front hub on my road super rocket, at least initially!

Apologies for the sidecar lingo reference to small wheeled chairs, please interpret a "chair" = "a racing sidecar" and small wheels are car wheels (with wide tyres) as distinct from big wheels which are motorcycle wheels. The small wheelers typically run twin disk brakes, so stop pretty hard.
A good rider periodically checks all nuts and bolts with a spanner to see that they are tight - Instruction Manual for BSA B series, p46, para 2.
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Offline duTch

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #28 on: 15.07. 2012 06:30 »
RR, I figured it out pretty quick, was just when I first saw it,being a bit dyslexic(that's the excuse I use) but you couldn't have written it differently- was just funny.
 Re the rear brake arm, I'll just have to 'suck and see', when I sort out the other stuff!
 Cheers, duTch
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

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Re: Front wheel / Brakes options
« Reply #29 on: 15.07. 2012 07:58 »
no worries...
rear brakes usually less a problem as we have big boots. But rod definitely better than cable for rear brake feel.

A good rider periodically checks all nuts and bolts with a spanner to see that they are tight - Instruction Manual for BSA B series, p46, para 2.
New Zealand