Author Topic: 1954 GF electronic ignition change  (Read 3335 times)

Offline BSA_54A10

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Re: 1954 GF electronic ignition change
« Reply #15 on: 16.05. 2012 10:34 »
While these prices seem scary you need to look at them in the proper light.
A maggy, reconditioned on your bike will cost £ 300 to £ 500.
This will be the last time you spend money on this unit till the points need replacing and the unit can be expected to run at least another 20 years.
 At the rate of 1 ride a month (12 per year ) over 20 years it works out to be £ 1.20 to £ 3 per ride which is about 1/2 the price of a coffee.
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Offline Bustersbike

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Re: 1954 GF electronic ignition change
« Reply #16 on: 16.05. 2012 18:04 »
Does your present Lucas system give a spark?
I'm not sure just now TT. it's been a whiles (20 years) since the bike was last running!! From what I can remember, I was coming home one miserable night and there was a blue flash and the bike died. Changed the fuse but still nothing. Took it off the road to change quite a few things, moved house a couple of times and now I'm finally getting round tae sorting it out. The engine is pretty much standard apart from a later (alloy) head and the 12v electronic ignition.
Je Suis Prest

Offline Bustersbike

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Re: 1954 GF electronic ignition change
« Reply #17 on: 16.05. 2012 18:19 »
Thanks for the replies beezermacc and Trevor *smiley4*
my funds are a bit low just now guys and can't really afford a new/recon mag so was going for the cheaper option;)
There maybe nothing wrong with the kit I have on but thought the Boyer stuff was better from what I heard.
Half the problem I was having before was when the weather was damp / wet and used the lights, the engine would cut out. After finding that whoever built the bike before had run the rear light cable under the seat and it wore through and shorted out! Solved that problem and was fine for a whiles until the wiring running through the bars had cracked and shorted out! Sorted that then as said above, there was a blue flash one night and the bike died.
As you might gather the bike isn't exactly standard! It's going through some major changes just now and trying to get a few things gathered up and seeking some advice for the standard stuff.
Thanks again;):D
Je Suis Prest

Offline Bustersbike

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Re: 1954 GF electronic ignition change
« Reply #18 on: 16.05. 2012 18:27 »
I know I asked about not having a battery, that has possibly gone by the way side now. Having read some posts about not using a gel battery, I take it that means I couldn't use one with a mag? Is it possible to use one with the 12v lucas rita set up??
Sorry for what might seem daft questions guys;)
Je Suis Prest

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Re: 1954 GF electronic ignition change
« Reply #19 on: 16.05. 2012 19:03 »
You will not be happy trying to use a Boyer with a dynamo. The battery will get low at some stage and you will break down. It will also kick back fiercely when you try to start.

You might get off with a RITA, because they work better at lower voltages than Boyers do.

I know Boyer claim that their latest Mk IV system works down to low voltage, but they have a history of making false claims.

I have only ever seen one electronic BTH magneto replacement on a bike and it appeared to be faulty.

Spending £200 on a good magneto is cheaper than wasting a smaller sum on a dodgy product.

Of course, you may wish to repeat the mistakes I've made in the past,  just to be sure.


Online bsa-bill

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Re: 1954 GF electronic ignition change
« Reply #20 on: 16.05. 2012 20:51 »
Hi Bustersbike

Ideally I would agree that a Magneto is the thing on an A if you want to preserve the look/style/feel charm and all those things that make them what they are.
Having said that I fitted a Pazon to my last bike as it has other artefacts that make it something other than an A (indicators, top box and stuff) so it is "spoilt" but spoilt as I want it.
I chose the Pazon because it works at lower voltage than Boyer (it is made by ex Boyer employees), it is a nice bit of kit and easy to fit and even easier to adjust the bike timing should you need to.
I wont dwell on the difference it has made to the bikes starting or running because if the Magneto has been right it would have started and run as well,  -- well possibly
I still have the magneto and it will get packed off to a forum member to be given a thorough test to see what's up with it, still bugs me that it would not run or start reliably (as it does now)
and if it needs fixed it will be and will find itself back in service as a spare to be alternated with the one on my Flash (other bike) as popular theory is they are best not left on shelfs for to long.

All the best with it  - Bill
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline Bustersbike

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Re: 1954 GF electronic ignition change
« Reply #21 on: 16.05. 2012 22:49 »
You will not be happy trying to use a Boyer with a dynamo. The battery will get low at some stage and you will break down. It will also kick back fiercely when you try to start.

You might get off with a RITA, because they work better at lower voltages than Boyers do.

I know Boyer claim that their latest Mk IV system works down to low voltage, but they have a history of making false claims.

I have only ever seen one electronic BTH magneto replacement on a bike and it appeared to be faulty.

Spending £200 on a good magneto is cheaper than wasting a smaller sum on a dodgy product.

Of course, you may wish to repeat the mistakes I've made in the past,  just to be sure.


Ah'm listening tae what you're saying TT.. don't really want tae be going down that route! Cheers muchly for the really sound advice ;) *smile*
When ye say "lower voltages", does that mean 6v?
Ah reckon ah'll probably stick with what ah've got and take it from there. Cheers muchly again;):D
Je Suis Prest

Offline Bustersbike

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Re: 1954 GF electronic ignition change
« Reply #22 on: 16.05. 2012 23:10 »
Hi Bustersbike

Ideally I would agree that a Magneto is the thing on an A if you want to preserve the look/style/feel charm and all those things that make them what they are.
Having said that I fitted a Pazon to my last bike as it has other artefacts that make it something other than an A (indicators, top box and stuff) so it is "spoilt" but spoilt as I want it.
I chose the Pazon because it works at lower voltage than Boyer (it is made by ex Boyer employees), it is a nice bit of kit and easy to fit and even easier to adjust the bike timing should you need to.
I wont dwell on the difference it has made to the bikes starting or running because if the Magneto has been right it would have started and run as well,  -- well possibly
I still have the magneto and it will get packed off to a forum member to be given a thorough test to see what's up with it, still bugs me that it would not run or start reliably (as it does now)
and if it needs fixed it will be and will find itself back in service as a spare to be alternated with the one on my Flash (other bike) as popular theory is they are best not left on shelfs for to long.

All the best with it  - Bill
Hi Bill, cheers for the reply;)
I'm not too fussed about the look / style etc... just as long as it runs ok;):D
I think it's maybe a case of the "grass is always greener" after hearing some folks raving about the Boyer gear. To be fair, I never really had much problems with what I've got on except damp / wet nights.
I'll look up that Pazon kit and see what's what... just incase!:D
Cheers muchly again;):D
Je Suis Prest

Online beezermacc

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Re: 1954 GF electronic ignition change
« Reply #23 on: 17.05. 2012 07:33 »
The reason magnetos have a reputation for unreliability is because people are trying to run them well beyond their service life. Nothing lasts forever. An original Lucas mag would last maybe 10-20 years then the capacitor or windings would start to fail. Some people are still trying to run mags which are 50 years old and never been serviced. I haven't got anything in the house which is still working after 50 years, apart from the dishwasher and even she's starting to get a bit tired...................
Priory Magnetos Ltd - A10 spares, magneto and dynamo refurbs. www.priorymagnetos.co.uk

Online Triton Thrasher

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Re: 1954 GF electronic ignition change
« Reply #24 on: 17.05. 2012 09:25 »
To be fair, I never really had much problems with what I've got on except damp / wet nights.
I'll look up that Pazon kit and see what's what... just incase!:D
Cheers muchly again;):D

Ignition troubles in the rain will almost certainly be the same with any system.

Renew the HT leads, incase they have tiny cracks in the insulation.
Do not use metal shrouded plug caps, or ones with a rubber seal that touches the plug's porcelain insulator.
Clean the plug insulators and the ends of the coils and spray with WD40 or similar. Spray inside the plug caps and coil terminals and shrouds too.

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Re: 1954 GF electronic ignition change
« Reply #25 on: 17.05. 2012 09:28 »


When ye say "lower voltages", does that mean 6v?


I just mean the low voltages you get when the dynamo can't keep up with lights and ignition, such as in town riding. 

Offline Bustersbike

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Re: 1954 GF electronic ignition change
« Reply #26 on: 18.05. 2012 21:51 »
To be fair, I never really had much problems with what I've got on except damp / wet nights.
I'll look up that Pazon kit and see what's what... just incase!:D
Cheers muchly again;):D

Ignition troubles in the rain will almost certainly be the same with any system.

Renew the HT leads, incase they have tiny cracks in the insulation.
Do not use metal shrouded plug caps, or ones with a rubber seal that touches the plug's porcelain insulator.
Clean the plug insulators and the ends of the coils and spray with WD40 or similar. Spray inside the plug caps and coil terminals and shrouds too.
Cheers for the help TT;) new leads. caps and plugs are on the shopping list:D
Je Suis Prest

Online baz

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Re: 1954 GF electronic ignition change
« Reply #27 on: 11.06. 2012 01:38 »
with a boyer system as the voltage drops to say 9volts it goes on to full advance and it will kick you back below 9volts i dont think it works at all,your dynamo would be hard pressed to keep up with that including lights etc you really would do better getting a re built magneto if you can,or depending on your time and skills fit a modern alternator driving off a dummy spindle where your dynamo should live and keep your electronic ignition,or spend £400 plus on a 12v alton coversion  cheers baz

Offline duTch

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Re: 1954 GF electronic ignition change
« Reply #28 on: 11.06. 2012 07:30 »
Quote
fit a modern alternator driving off a dummy spindle where your dynamo should live

Hey Baz, You hit a button there, I've considered that possibility,just for lights- I like the maggie, seems an alternator will maybe just squeeze in, have you seen it done successfully?? It'd be spinning fairly fast at times with the same gearing?
 Cheers duTch
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Online baz

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Re: 1954 GF electronic ignition change
« Reply #29 on: 12.06. 2012 19:02 »
yes ive seen them with car alternators with cutaway timing cases,i saw one at a local show that had a belt running from a pulley where the magneto should sit running up to an alternator mounted on the battery tray it must have had crank triggered ignition?,i ran mine for a while with a yamaha fj1200 alternator i cut down an old dynamo and made a new shaft for it with a renolds type missalinement coulpling to the alternator the drive was inside the front engine plates and the alternator was mounted on the left hand front engine plate as close as i could get it to the crankcases,it worked very well but the drive was noisy and i was worried it might snap the drive chain and wreck the inner timing cover,if i do it again i will look for a smaller alternator (maybe one from a kubota) and replace the chain with a toothed belt dynamo drive kit cheers baz