Author Topic: smoking super rocket  (Read 6192 times)

Online beezermacc

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2011
  • Posts: 919
  • Karma: 37
  • Not for the purist!
    • Priory Magnetos Ltd.
Re: smoking super rocket
« Reply #15 on: 23.06. 2012 23:34 »
I think its time to inspect the top end again! Lifting the head and barrels isn't such a big job and its the only way you're going to find out what the problem is. Even if you find out what the problem is without lifting the top end off you're still going to have to dismantle it to fix the problem.
Priory Magnetos Ltd - A10 spares, magneto and dynamo refurbs. www.priorymagnetos.co.uk

Offline mfhutchins

  • Moving Up
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2012
  • Posts: 24
  • Karma: 0
Re: smoking super rocket
« Reply #16 on: 24.06. 2012 00:25 »
i am so discouraged.  all in all, i have hundreds of hours on this bike and now i have to take the engine 1/2 apart just to see if i have a broken piston ring.

i know, i know.  welcome to british bikes.

and my gaskets were doing such a great job...

Online Brian

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2007
  • Posts: 1701
  • Karma: 40
  • Mt Gambier, South Australia.
Re: smoking super rocket
« Reply #17 on: 24.06. 2012 01:12 »
Unfortunately these things happen Mike.

Gandini, or commonly known as GPM (different names same factory) pistons are a good piston. There does seem to be some variation with the rings on them and something you may need to check. In my experience with them the top ring and the oil ring can go in either way up but some of them come with a stepped scraper ring and this must be correctly fitted. They should have come with fitting instructions in the box but if not the step or rebate faces down.

You need to inspect the rings very carefully and see if there are any markings on them to indicate which way up they go, they should have a very small T by the gap. Also make sure the end gap is correct, around .010".

If you are unsure about any of this I would seek advice from an engineering firm or someone reputable near you.

Look upon it as a learning curve, when you have got the bike running well and you are enjoying a ride on a nice day all this will be forgotten.  *smile*

Offline Flatboy 1950

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Posts: 110
  • Karma: 1
    • Flat Earth Spares
Re: smoking super rocket
« Reply #18 on: 24.06. 2012 11:37 »
I cannot find the article / thesis I read about pre- ignition & detonation
but clouds of white smoke pour out the bike before it comes to a dead stop.
Detonation kills a motor real quick , holed piston ; furthest from the plug/ opposite the plug.

Cheers , Flatboy.

Online beezermacc

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2011
  • Posts: 919
  • Karma: 37
  • Not for the purist!
    • Priory Magnetos Ltd.
Re: smoking super rocket
« Reply #19 on: 24.06. 2012 17:21 »
The clouds of white smoke caused by pre-ignition is the discharge of melting aluminium (piston). I don't think mfhutchins's Super Rocket has got that hot yet!
Priory Magnetos Ltd - A10 spares, magneto and dynamo refurbs. www.priorymagnetos.co.uk

Offline wilko

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 681
  • Karma: 4
Re: smoking super rocket
« Reply #20 on: 25.06. 2012 00:38 »
Perhaps a nicotine patch on the left cylinder will fix it!

Offline a10gf

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2006
  • Posts: 2769
  • Karma: 42
  • West Coast, Norway & Alpes Maritimes, France
    • A10 GF
Re: smoking super rocket
« Reply #21 on: 25.06. 2012 01:01 »
att. wilko, lol, I am often posting general reminders to not stray offtopic in the tech boards, but this one was a very good offtopic and ontopic. Congrats.

A10 GF '53 My A10 website
"Success only gets you a ticket to a much more difficult task"

Offline JulianM

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 233
  • Karma: 14
  • www.historiccompetitionservices.be
    • Historic Competition Services
Re: smoking super rocket
« Reply #22 on: 28.06. 2012 08:06 »
i am so discouraged.  all in all, i have hundreds of hours on this bike and now i have to take the engine 1/2 apart just to see if i have a broken piston ring.

i know, i know.  welcome to british bikes.

and my gaskets were doing such a great job...

Hi there,
Don't be discouraged at all.  This has happened to all of us at some time or other, Just bite the bullet and go to it!
This time though, "go through it with a fine tooth comb"  check everything you possibly can. Strip the head completely and if in doubt about anything, Change it or sort it, don't pass it off or you may be going through this again next week.  While the head is off, just whip the barrels off too and double check!  At this stage it's not so much work.
The big thing to learn here is the one golden rule we use in our shop.  Leave no stone unturned! And turn it slowly and check it thoroughly!
One of the hardest jobs in engineering is control of yourself!  Really do all you can to stop yourself from cutting even the smallest corner. These things only cost you time and money in the long run. Even if it's a bitch of a job. Just bite down and do it better than you can imagine anyone else doing it ever before!  You can turn even the crappiest job into a pleasure when the end result is perfection!
   
Good luck and let us know how you get on!
My guess is valve guides, but I would still pull the barrels while you are this far.  ;)

Regards,
Julian
55 Ariel HS mk1,
58 BSA Super Rocket Scrambler special,
60 BSA Gold Star, Jim hunter desert racer,
64 Norton N15CS,
65 Triumph TR6 SS,
66 Triumph Bonneville,
71 AJS Stormer,
71 BSA Rocket 3,
71 Laverda 750SF,
71 Laverda/Egli 750SF, Race bike,
73 Norton Commando 850,
74 Moto Morini 3-1/2 Sport,
74 Bultaco Sherpa 350,
76 Beta Cross 50,
77 Moto Guzzi Le Mans Mk1,
80 Ducati 900 MHR,

Offline muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 8162
  • Karma: 106
  • Lake Conjola NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: smoking super rocket
« Reply #23 on: 28.06. 2012 09:28 »
 Very wise words Julian, worth a karma.
Mike, don't like the sound of milky stuff. Probably just the oil and thinners emulsifing (bugga if I can spell that). But it should take quite some time for it to reach the sump. I got money on a ring. If you didn't take the rings off the piston and check end gap and one or more were too big they will break.
I use the hose clamp method but also use a bit of poly pipe cut long ways between the clamp and rings/piston. With lots of oil and tighten clamp till it JUST spins. Very carefully and slowly.
I do feel for you, I know what it's like.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline mfhutchins

  • Moving Up
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2012
  • Posts: 24
  • Karma: 0
Re: smoking super rocket
« Reply #24 on: 28.06. 2012 18:10 »
im going to assume the milky stuff (wasnt that much) was exactly that; the emulsified oil and solvent.  i am not going to go through with testing it as it stands with the 30 weight non-detergent oil.  i have decided, after hearing what you guys have been saying, to strip the top end and look at the valve guides and inspect the piston rings.  one reason i am optimistic about actually having this bike on the road this summer is that, starting tomorrow afternoon, i am on a 9-day vacation.  surely enough time for a slow guy like me to get my act together, find the gaskets and other parts i will need and get this thing done.

by the way, from the start, i've been very slow and methodical about what ive been doing.  not only because this is new to me, but because i value this machine for its history, engineering and beauty.  im only 35 years old which is probably young enough to be a son to many of you, but my appreciation for BSA and its roots as a small group of gunsmiths at the dawn of the industrial revolution cannot be overstated.  i have read extensively about the company and all it produced and decided i wanted to own something at the top of the A10 line. 

8 years ago while riding with my vintage bike friends, i told one of them my dream of owning a super rocket.  back then, i had an A50.   i thought if i found one it would either be in such good condition it would be too expensive for me to buy (mortgage, wife, kids) or if i found one within my price range, it would be a basket case.  i had to sell both the 69 A50 and a 76 honda CB550F in order to buy this and i couldnt be happier.  i feel connected to this bike.

i have reached a point beyond frustration and impatience.  i am calm and relaxed and ready to do what i need to do (with the help of a few drinks) to get this final stuff done right.

thanks for taking the time to help me through this, and i will post my results, hopefully within a week.

mike.

Offline JulianM

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 233
  • Karma: 14
  • www.historiccompetitionservices.be
    • Historic Competition Services
Re: smoking super rocket
« Reply #25 on: 29.06. 2012 09:54 »
Good luck Mike,

Your SR loves you, for loving "it"  be assured  ;)
I am sure you will get a lot of pleasure from riding it when sorted and all that hard work will pale into insignificance compared to the smile on your face as you blast down those country lanes!

Julian,
55 Ariel HS mk1,
58 BSA Super Rocket Scrambler special,
60 BSA Gold Star, Jim hunter desert racer,
64 Norton N15CS,
65 Triumph TR6 SS,
66 Triumph Bonneville,
71 AJS Stormer,
71 BSA Rocket 3,
71 Laverda 750SF,
71 Laverda/Egli 750SF, Race bike,
73 Norton Commando 850,
74 Moto Morini 3-1/2 Sport,
74 Bultaco Sherpa 350,
76 Beta Cross 50,
77 Moto Guzzi Le Mans Mk1,
80 Ducati 900 MHR,

Online Topdad

  • bob hebdon
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 2228
  • Karma: 32
  • l
Re: smoking super rocket
« Reply #26 on: 29.06. 2012 11:10 »
Sounds to me like you'll have a very happy relationship with this bike ,really great to hear someone a lot younger than , i suspect, most of us here , who loves this marque and it's history. Beware they get under your skin and end up being a part of your  life, which in my case stretches since I bought this bike  ( most of it ) when I was 16 yrs old ,I'm 62 at present and still get the same buzz when I start her up ,wife says I even walk like a 16 yr old again ,( don't go there Musky ) so there's an additional incentive to you to carry on with it  , built in eternal youth, well partly true even if its only in my head !! The very best of luck to you with your endevours BobH
" rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the blind obediance of fools"
United Kingdom

Offline duTch

  • Ricketty Rocketty Golden Flashback
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 4540
  • Karma: 41
Re: smoking super rocket
« Reply #27 on: 30.06. 2012 09:41 »
 Had a little chuckle there Topdad-
  Nice words mfhutchins-Mike.
 You're not much older than my older one, and I'm trying not to deter him with my cussing and stuff- he looks at me kind of funny sometimes!!
     One thing I've learned over the last year or so is that, just when I think I know something, the 'rules' change!!
 Soon as I'm in the right mind-frame I'm going to post re-checking your gudgeon/wrist/piston pins bushes for square/true, so keep that in mind!!
 Good on you for "havin' a go' as we say here!!
 Cheers duTch

  Just one thing-When I was at school I thought the industrial revolution was much earlier than BSA starting point,mid1800's?? maybe that's why I failed history-always learning.
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline mfhutchins

  • Moving Up
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2012
  • Posts: 24
  • Karma: 0
Re: smoking super rocket
« Reply #28 on: 30.06. 2012 12:44 »
Dutch, I just found out that you are right about the industrial revolution.  I guess I was referring to the technological revolution, which happened right after that from late 1800s to WWI.

How does the expression go? Older and wiser?

Offline JulianM

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 233
  • Karma: 14
  • www.historiccompetitionservices.be
    • Historic Competition Services
Re: smoking super rocket
« Reply #29 on: 30.06. 2012 13:19 »
     One thing I've learned over the last year or so is that, just when I think I know something, the 'rules' change!!
 

Made me think of my own little expression,   "Experience is; Remembering that you've made that mistake before, just after you've done it again"    *smile* *smile

Julian
55 Ariel HS mk1,
58 BSA Super Rocket Scrambler special,
60 BSA Gold Star, Jim hunter desert racer,
64 Norton N15CS,
65 Triumph TR6 SS,
66 Triumph Bonneville,
71 AJS Stormer,
71 BSA Rocket 3,
71 Laverda 750SF,
71 Laverda/Egli 750SF, Race bike,
73 Norton Commando 850,
74 Moto Morini 3-1/2 Sport,
74 Bultaco Sherpa 350,
76 Beta Cross 50,
77 Moto Guzzi Le Mans Mk1,
80 Ducati 900 MHR,