Author Topic: BUGGA  (Read 1758 times)

Online bsa-bill

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 5476
  • Karma: 64
Re: BUGGA
« Reply #15 on: 30.09. 2012 19:26 »
Quote
the sods closed us down without so much as "kiss my **** " so I borrowed one

Was that so they couldn't put the fire out Bob >:D
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Online Brian

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2007
  • Posts: 1708
  • Karma: 41
  • Mt Gambier, South Australia.
Re: BUGGA
« Reply #16 on: 30.09. 2012 23:30 »
Anyone considering a C02 extinguisher I would advise to talk to someone with expertise in this area before buying one. They work by removing the oxygen from the atmosphere and are designed for use in enclosed areas like electrical cabinets and engine rooms where total flooding with C02 is required.

They are not intended for use by humans in confined spaces. If you discharge one in a confined space it will probably put the fire out but may well asphyxiate the user.

The powder types do make a mess and the powder is corrosive but they are relitively safe to use and effective.

Remember to fit your extinguisher at the doorway that is the exit from the building, never put the fire between yourself and the exit.


Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 8330
  • Karma: 107
  • Lithgow NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: BUGGA
« Reply #17 on: 01.10. 2012 06:53 »
And not to mention co2 extinguishers are 10 times the price. About $200 for a small one!! So I bought 2 powder replacements. All good, I found a few lost items whilst cleaning up.
Cheers.
PS A65 lives, just did 50 miles, all good.
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline MG

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 949
  • Karma: 23
Re: BUGGA
« Reply #18 on: 01.10. 2012 14:01 »
It's not so critical, Brian. A large extinguisher contains 5kg of CO2, the specific gravity of CO2 at room temperature is roughly 2kg per cubic metre. So all the gas in one extinguisher will fill a room of approx. 2.5 cubic metres, and it is heavier than air. So unless you are operating it in a 1x1m (40x40 inch) large "room", there is zero risk of suffocating. You don't have to flood the whole shed with CO2 to extinguish a small fire, it is enough to withdraw the oxygen in its immediate proximity. Once it has spread on a larger area, I suppose your chances with a powder extinguisher aren't too good either.

Mind you, there is also a huge difference in quality between cheap and not so cheap powder extinguishers. I have some here from reputable manufacturers that are almost 20 years old and still passed the (biannual) tests without any trouble whatsoever, and some cheapo ones had to be rejected at less than half that age because either the powder had gone hard or pressure was lost. One was rejected because it was more than 30 years old, but the powder was still okay and pressure was fine. Good old craftmanship *lol*
Then I ahd this other cheapo CO2 affair with a hand-wheel valve that was withdrawn from circulation because two of them had exploded in use and injured the operators...

A good 6kg powder affair is roughly 100-120 Euro here, while a high-quality CO2 unit is about twice that price. Money well spent imho, given the longer life span and the fact that you would really really want them to work if needed!

Just my 2p worth, you pay your money, you take your choice.  ;)

Cheers!
1955 A7 Shooting Star
1956 A10 Golden Flash
1961 Matchless G12 CSR

www.histo-tech.at - Restoration, Repairs, Racing

Austria

Online Brian

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2007
  • Posts: 1708
  • Karma: 41
  • Mt Gambier, South Australia.
Re: BUGGA
« Reply #19 on: 01.10. 2012 22:48 »
All good info Markus.

Up until last year I worked at a large paper manufacturing factory where we dealt with fires regularly, on average about one per week. When you are working with machines about the size of four average houses that run 24 hours a day at about 450 degrees C I guess fires are inevitable.

We used to get fire training a couple of times per year which included how to deal with all different types of fires. All our machines and electrical systems that could be where enclosed in cabinets and fitted with total fill CO2 systems. If we had a fire in one of those we hit a fire button which flooded the unit plus locked the access door.

For hand held extinguishers we only used water or powder units. The reason for that was we where told even a small CO2 unit could take your breath away if you happened to take a decent breath at the time of discharging the extinguisher. It was considered that they were not suitable for general use particularly if the operater happened to be in a confined area.

My concern here on the forum is if someone had a fire in a small shed, like a 6' square garden shed and used a CO2 extinguisher they could be at risk of asphixiation. So that makes me think that for general use particularly for people that may not have had any experience with fires and extinguishers they would be better off with a powder type.

You are right saying a CO2 will put out a small fire but if there is an ignition source still there the fire will re ignite, for instance if you have a rag burning alongside a fuel container. In this case a powder unit will work better as it will put a coating of powder over the surface of the fuel which will make it a lot more difficult for it to re ignite plus will give you more time to remove the ignition source, ie. the piece of burning rag.

If you have experience with extinguishers and know how they work and the risks, a CO2 unit will put out a fire without the mess but I think for general use by most a powder unit is a better choice.

The most important thing of course is that you have an extinguisher, anything is better than nothing. A fire is a harrowing experience as I found out a couple of years ago and Muskrat has just discovered. It gets the heart racing at the time but when you have had time to consider just what you could have lost if you had not been able to put the fire out, well that doesnt bear thinking about. In my case all my bikes (15 of them) plus tools etc etc where in the shed were I had the fire. Muskrat had all his stuff plus his house on top of his fire.

So to everyone, get a extinguisher. Dont think "it will never happen to me"

Offline fido

  • Zala County, Hungary
  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2006
  • Posts: 684
  • Karma: 8
Re: BUGGA
« Reply #20 on: 02.10. 2012 06:48 »
Obviously you need oxygen to breathe but at least with carbon dioxide you should be able to retain your faculties and know that you can't breathe, not like carbon monoxide that sends you to sleep. In my case the fire was eventually put out with water by the fire brigade but the steel of the vehicle did seem to be permanently damaged as it would rust much quicker than normal bare steel. I think the same was found with the restored bikes from the museum fire, they need extra care to stop them from rotting away.

Offline chaterlea25

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 3284
  • Karma: 47
Re: BUGGA
« Reply #21 on: 02.10. 2012 12:40 »
Hi Musky
THat was waaay too close for comfort *eek* *eek* *eek* *eek*
I dont think I would be very happy sleeping knowing there were lots of flammable materials underneath the bedroom floor???

We used to do fire training where I worked, they used a metal tray about 1msq and say 150mm deep
a few inches of water was added and then some diesel floated on top, to light from cold a drop of petrol was splashed into the diesel and then lit off *warn* *warn*
The trainees (us) would then use a dry powder ext to put out the fire  *eek*
If you were first up a 20lb ext would out the blaze, as the fuel warmed up it was marginal whether the entire 20lb ext would out it, end even then sometimes it would flash up again

From those experiences I would not bother with the small extinguishers sold !!!!

Musky, I would seriously consider an alternative place to store all that high octane fuel

Regards
John O R
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 8330
  • Karma: 107
  • Lithgow NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: BUGGA
« Reply #22 on: 02.10. 2012 13:30 »
 Might be a good time to hit the minister of finance for a small (3m x 3m) garden shed, as I have two of my bikes outside as well.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7