Author Topic: Blown cylinder head gasket and duff wrench  (Read 2735 times)

Offline Stephen Foster

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Re: Blown cylinder head gasket and duff wrench
« Reply #15 on: 14.01. 2013 19:06 »
I know this is a dumb question but can Someone please enlighten Me how to calibrate a torsion bar torque wrench ?
I admit to not being mechanically gifted
I have no idea ..this is a serious question .

Thanks in advance ,

Steve ...
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Offline KiwiGF

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Re: Blown cylinder head gasket and duff wrench
« Reply #16 on: 14.01. 2013 23:53 »
Hi Stephen, I can tell you how I checked/callibrated my wrench, but I'm sure others will have alternative methods, my "callibration" was simply to work out what the wrench needed to be set too to get the REAL torque setting I wanted, these figures are shown below.  

I guess some wrenches will have an internal adjustment of some sort that means you can adjust it so the wrenches reads correctly. I'm pretty sure my wrench can be taken apart to get at the callibration adjustments, but as I'm intending to return it to the shop I'm not going to do that.

I checked my wrench by clamping the 1/2 inch drive in a vice so the bar was horizantal and the weight of the bar was resting on the ratchet, with the ratchet set in the "tighten" position.

I decided to use "check point" 1.378 (420mm) from the middle of the 1/2 inch drive as a point to add test weights. This was very close to very end of the wrench.

With no test weights on the wrench the (upward) force needed to lift the "check point" just off the ratchet was 1.54 lbs. I've called this the "zero" weight in the results below.

I then made up a selection of test weights and weighed them. I used bottles of water, but anything will do as long as you can hang it from the "checkpoint". I have some scales which are accurate to 5kg so I made up a few test weights at less than that (I've converted the weights I used from kg to lb in the results below).

I then hung the the weights on the "check point" using a piece of string and adjusted the wrench torque setting so it was nearly, but not quite "clicking" to indicate the torque setting had been reached. With my wrench the extra little "push" down to get it to click was much less than 1 lb so having the wrench "nearly' clicking was accurate enough. My wrench was quite good at "repeatedly" giving the same reading for a given weight. Shame it consistently gave a wrong reading!

For the "torsion bar" type wrenches which do not "click" but just give a reading I think the same method can be used to check those.

I then used a calculator to work out the "real" torque on the wrench, for each test weight and wrench reading.

The results were as follows:

Zero Weight  Test Weight (lbs)   Total Test  Calcuated Torque ft lb    Observed/actual Wrench
 (lbs)                                      Weight      (Total weight x1.378)     Setting ft lb
1.54               16.54                 18.08         24.91                         50
1.54               23.15                 24.69         34.02                         60
1.54               30.87                 32.41         44.66                         70  


So I know to get my head bolts at 34 lb ft I set the wrench to 60 ft lb, and for the (billet) con rods to get 45 ft lbs I set the wrench to just over 70 ft lb.

Once I'm done using the wrench (I parted the crankcases last night to re-do the con rods) I intend to return it to Repco as it has a lifetime warranty, and in my opinion the inaccuracy is way outside of what it should be, even though I've owned it a couple of years I've hardly used it. I'm not expecting them to replace it but it's worth a go.  

A quicker/easier method to test the wrench is to set it the other way up in the vice, set it to various settings starting (say) at 25 ft lb and use bathroom scales to push the end of the wrench "up" and then use the same calculation as above, I also used this method and obtained pretty much the sames results, but note bathroom scales may be quite inaccurate around the 20 to 40 lb mark (especially if the wife has adjusted them).  


For those with metric wrenches, which usually measure in kg meters, the conversion for that is:

1 kg meter =  7.233 ft lb  (so 70 ft lb = 9.67 kg m)


If it helps understanding ... if one has a 1 ft long spanner on a bolt, and exert a force on it of 30 lbs, you have done the bolt up to 30 ft lbs, if the spanner is 2 feet long the same force of 30lbs will do the bolt up to 60 ft lbs eg double the tightness, the same principle applies to torque measured in kg meters.
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Offline Stephen Foster

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Re: Blown cylinder head gasket and duff wrench
« Reply #17 on: 15.01. 2013 02:37 »
Well I thank You for that !
Wont pretend Ive understood it but I will print it out & read it slowly !
The "Blonde Bombshell" may be able to take it onboard also !

Regards,
Steve...
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Offline Desburnett

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Re: Blown cylinder head gasket and duff wrench
« Reply #18 on: 15.01. 2013 06:03 »
Like a lot of tools you get what you pay for, typically a professional tool from Norbar (www.norbar.com) is not cheap but it's the tool for the job. Their website has a section for calibration but this is more of a service than a DIY job.  As mentioned earlier the quality of the fixings is important and equally so is most torque values are quoted as "dry' figures, ie with no grease or coppaslip type compound. Applying grease or any other medium to the threads will introduce error.
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Online muskrat

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Re: Blown cylinder head gasket and duff wrench
« Reply #19 on: 15.01. 2013 09:28 »
 I use two of these, one inch/pounds the other Ft/Lb  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfj8vJJkc5g
http://www.toolworks.com.au/warren-and-brown-322500-10-120ft.lb-1-2-drive-torque-wrench.html
Great job kiwi, I do similar with scales like in the fruit market. In 35 years of use they are both within 3% of original settings.
Cheers
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Offline BSA_54A10

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Re: Blown cylinder head gasket and duff wrench
« Reply #20 on: 15.01. 2013 09:46 »
A foot pound is 1 pound of weight applied with a lever that is 1 foot long.
Which is the same as a 2lb weight with a lever that is 6 inches long.

So you can check your calibration by suspending a known weight at a known distance an see if the wrench "signals" ( or reads for non signaling )
I have a 20 lb weight ( from an old set of balances ).
Same as the others, clamp the square drive in the vice, move the weight along the wrench till it signals then measure the length from the center of the square drive and the string holding the weight
This is a little rough as it does not take the weight of the wrench itself into account, but as I mentioned earlier the actual numbers are not all that impotant just so long as you are in the ball park.
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Offline Minto

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Re: Blown cylinder head gasket and duff wrench
« Reply #21 on: 03.08. 2020 20:42 »
A foot pound is 1 pound of weight applied with a lever that is 1 foot long.
Which is the same as a 2lb weight with a lever that is 6 inches long.

So you can check your calibration by suspending a known weight at a known distance an see if the wrench "signals" ( or reads for non signaling )
I have a 20 lb weight ( from an old set of balances ).
Same as the others, clamp the square drive in the vice, move the weight along the wrench till it signals then measure the length from the center of the square drive and the string holding the weight
This is a little rough as it does not take the weight of the wrench itself into account, but as I mentioned earlier the actual numbers are not all that impotant just so long as you are in the ball park.

Thats brilliant, sorry for dragging up the past but really needed to show appreciation for this.
Jase
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Offline Colsbeeza

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Re: Blown cylinder head gasket and duff wrench
« Reply #22 on: 03.08. 2020 23:01 »
I recently used a cheap click-type torque wrench to set the big-end bolts a little less than the aim. I also checked with an old type with a flexible shaft and a pointer fixed from the handle to the scale. Hard to describe I know, so I'll post a photo soon. When the needle pointer reached beyond the lower setting, it started to move the nut.  Repeated with the Click-wrench for final setting. Better than nothing, but who can you get to check the click-type?
Col
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Re: Blown cylinder head gasket and duff wrench
« Reply #23 on: 04.08. 2020 00:58 »
I've always thought that with most jobs, evenness of tension is more important than the actual figure.
Until I had to replace the headbolts on my 2000 9-3 Saab. These are the bolts designed to stretch, and to get to the stretch torque you need to get to the recommended torque (42ftlbs)
and then tighten an additional 90 degrees. I think it results in a figure somewhere over 100ftlbs.
I had borrowed my pal's 'quality' torquewrench to do this job, but interestingly my cheapo one was very similar.
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Offline WozzA

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Re: Blown cylinder head gasket and duff wrench
« Reply #24 on: 04.08. 2020 01:02 »
Warren & Brown 4 me as well..  *good3*
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Offline KiwiGF

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Re: Blown cylinder head gasket and duff wrench
« Reply #25 on: 04.08. 2020 05:36 »
I recently used a cheap click-type torque wrench to set the big-end bolts a little less than the aim. I also checked with an old type with a flexible shaft and a pointer fixed from the handle to the scale. Hard to describe I know, so I'll post a photo soon. When the needle pointer reached beyond the lower setting, it started to move the nut.  Repeated with the Click-wrench for final setting. Better than nothing, but who can you get to check the click-type?
Col

You can check a torque wrench yourself, I described how I did it in an earlier post in this thread, using a vice and weights made from bottles of water. My wrench was almost 50% out, and under tightened bolts.
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1956 A10 Golden Flash (1st finished project)

1949 B31 rigid “400cc hot rod” (2nd finished project, + favourite bike)

GL1800 Goldwing, well, the wife likes it

KTM 950 ADV, cos it’s 100% nuts

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Re: Blown cylinder head gasket and duff wrench
« Reply #26 on: 04.08. 2020 06:39 »
I use the correct length spanner and judge torque applied by feel, just like they did in the Triumph factory if you have ever seen the film. I'll get my coat. *whistle*
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Offline cyclobutch

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Re: Blown cylinder head gasket and duff wrench
« Reply #27 on: 04.08. 2020 09:24 »
I use the correct length spanner and judge torque applied by feel, just like they did in the Triumph factory if you have ever seen the film. I'll get my coat. *whistle*

I do use a torque wrench for some jobs, but always 'calibrate' the setting first by feel using it against a bolt clamped in the bench vice. 
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Re: Blown cylinder head gasket and duff wrench
« Reply #28 on: 04.08. 2020 14:08 »
I agree, eveness is the most important thing with head bolts and its the only job I use a torque wrench for. I only have the cheaper type with the springy handle and pointer. I have compared this with and expensive wrench and they both read the same.
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Offline BSA_54A10

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Re: Blown cylinder head gasket and duff wrench
« Reply #29 on: 06.08. 2020 09:07 »
One of the reasons why deflecting beam wrenches tend to stay in calibration much better than the micrometer adjustment type is defecting beam wrenches are never left with a load on the torsion bar.
I can not count the number of times  have gone into some one's shed to see the tension wrench sitting there on the pegbaord, still set to the XY ft lbs that was last used .
Now we all know what happens to the valve spring that has sat fully depressed for 2 years yet they are happy to leave the compression spring in their wrench loaded between uses.
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