Author Topic: NGK or Champion  (Read 3522 times)

Offline A10 JWO

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NGK or Champion
« on: 23.02. 2013 14:55 »
Firstly I am sorry for starting this thread.
I have been reading all the old threads for spark plugs and Champion came out best, I thought. I bought my 1954 Iron Head A10 in October and it was fitted with Volvo spark plugs : )
I bought NGK B6HS from a local car spares shop and it started pretty well most times. I visited my local BSA spares shop yesterday and he recomended Champion L82C for a better starting plug. I set them at 18 and fitted them. Would it start NO !!!
I put the NGK's back in and it fired first time.
Just thought I wouls share this moment with others who may know why my bike does not like brand new Champions.

Enjoy the rugby

Colin

Online Triton Thrasher

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Re: NGK or Champion
« Reply #1 on: 23.02. 2013 14:58 »
I visited my local BSA spares shop yesterday and he recomended Champion L82C for a better starting plug. I set them at 18 and fitted them. Would it start NO !!!


Did you get your money back?

Offline A10 JWO

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Re: NGK or Champion
« Reply #2 on: 23.02. 2013 15:04 »
Not yet, but I would like to know why they don't work in my machine, are they a summer plug LOL.

Colin

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Re: NGK or Champion
« Reply #3 on: 23.02. 2013 15:21 »
Must be bad plugs, that's all. Next Champions you try might be ok.

Online metalflake11

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Re: NGK or Champion
« Reply #4 on: 23.02. 2013 17:28 »
Mine doesn't like Champions either!  NGK might be a better option, or Denso's which are harder to get but since modern 'petrol' work best for mine.
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Online muskrat

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Re: NGK or Champion
« Reply #5 on: 24.02. 2013 04:24 »
 NGK's for me. I must have bought 10 champs out of the same bad box 30 years ago. Used NGK's since and would say I might have got 3 duds in that time.
I've just started using iridium plugs in the cafe and so far so good.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
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Offline olev

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Re: NGK or Champion
« Reply #6 on: 24.02. 2013 05:31 »
Our latest club magazine mentions counterfeit NGK plugs.
There is a lot about this on the web. google 'counterfeit NGK'
With some of the NGKs I've used, they may be better than the real thing.
cheers

Online bsa-bill

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Re: NGK or Champion
« Reply #7 on: 24.02. 2013 10:47 »
I've used Bosch to good effect, also there are non resistor plugs with small diameter centre electrodes the run clean,
I'll post back when I've been down to the shed sometime
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Online Seabee

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Re: NGK or Champion
« Reply #8 on: 24.02. 2013 12:12 »
Normally I wouldn't put a Champion in a lawnmower!  However, they are the only plug that works in my 61!  It fouls NGK's very easily.  Too much tickler and they are done.  I use the exact model called for by BSA.
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Online RichardL

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Re: NGK or Champion
« Reply #9 on: 24.02. 2013 14:36 »
I know that some plugs are just better than others and there must be some percentage of failures out-of-the-box, but I am having a hard time wrapping my head around total inoperability with one type versus another. Not doubting it, because there are plenty of stories to back it up, but I'm fishing for a good reason. You couldn't find a simpler piece of electrical equipment. Really, just two pieces of wire, an insulator and two electrical joints.

So, here are some unsupportable theories in no particular order:

1. Length of thead, either on the plug or in the head, leads to the grounded electrode shading the spark more than exposing it.
2. Technique of fusing grounded electrode to plug body (resistance welding) might create a high-resistance joint. Likewise, cap to insulated electrode.
3. Alloys used might also lead to resistance in joints.
4. Bad batches of ceramic mix for the insulator could lead to unseen hair-line fractures along which spark could travel.
5. Ceramic crystal structure might promote spark travel even when not fractured (talking way outside any technical expertise in this regard - maybe applies to the whole topic).
6. Plating of cap material or plug body could create resistance.
7. Any of the above in combinations

Looking forward to hearing more possibilities or learning why these are ridiculous.

Richard L.

Editing

Thanks Bill, adding to the list:
8. Lack of glazing could lead to the ceramic absorbing liquid and creating a spurious path for spark travel.

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Online bsa-bill

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Re: NGK or Champion
« Reply #10 on: 24.02. 2013 14:50 »
yes best theory I've heard is related to number 4, the author reckoned that because of the injection methods now used the plug manufacturers found no reason to glaze the internal ceramic insulator this results in plugs that once wetted become a complete conductor back to the engine body as the ceramic not being glazed just soaks up the fuel and the spark has no need to jump anywhere it just dives across to ground, might or might not be correct but it answers a few questions
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline Pecon

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Re: NGK or Champion
« Reply #11 on: 28.02. 2013 10:32 »
  I read the comments about counterfeit NGK plugs with interest as I had recently bought a box of B-7HC plugs for my A10 plunger a while back from the States through eBay which were advertised as NOS as I was having difficulty sourcing them here at the time. I decided to check the plugs just to satisify myself that they were the genuine article and found several of the indicators mentioned that they were in fact counterfit plugs such as the box colour and missing stamps on the hex part.

 I asked my local motor parts shop to order some and when I got them I found that they were B-7HC-10 which have a slightly different electrode design. I take it that these will be OK?.

 I have been using the (apparently) counterfit plugs for a while now in a recently rebuilt engine. Having seen some of the comments about holed pistons when the plugs go into melt down I guess I may have been very lucky..!!. I bought some B6ES plugs for my Norton at the same time from the same shop but these seem genuine. The plugs were not particularly cheap, much the same as what I paid for the replacements.

Cheers,

Peter 

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Re: NGK or Champion
« Reply #12 on: 28.02. 2013 12:43 »
 Might it be a alloy v iron head thing. NGK and Champion are opposite in their heat range #'s, NGK 5 is hotter than 9, Champs the other way. If it's fouling plugs throw some hotter ones in.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
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Offline mayes

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Re: NGK or Champion
« Reply #13 on: 07.04. 2013 15:28 »
Colin after reading this forum I have gone to NGK no problems have had issues with champions in the past with a Tri 500 and my B S A under restoration much better John
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Offline A10 JWO

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Re: NGK or Champion
« Reply #14 on: 07.04. 2013 15:56 »
Glad you like them, NGK are good ( so are Volvo plugs ) That's what were in mine when I bought it.
Happy days.

Colin