Author Topic: oil presure  (Read 2631 times)

Offline shuswapkev

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oil presure
« on: 08.04. 2013 23:30 »

 most of my earlier issues have been resolved.. other than my brand new camshaft has 17 thou runout...must have been a problem with heat treating....but...still need a new one...and looks like a another few weeks with case halves laying around...

 now onto new business...   oil pressure
  i would like to hook up an oil pressure guage...  is there any advice as to a good place to tap in ...this is in a set of 1951 plunger a 10 cases    part of the reason... using an original oil pump ...for now...  and have plans to replace with an aftermarket pump......up grade...would be nice to justify the expense...or not...

Online KiwiGF

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Re: oil presure
« Reply #1 on: 09.04. 2013 00:37 »
There's a few posts around on fitting pressure guages, also opinions on whether they are of any use! From what I've read the presssure is quite low once the oil is warm, and there is little point knowing what the pressure is, when the oil is cold.

Just my 2 cents worth but if you fit a guage you will be introducing a new "point of failure" and I think oil pressure failure is probably what you are worried about, but the pumps are very reliable as far as I can tell, they spin relatively slowly, don't wear much, and it's pretty easy to tell if they are worn before fitting them. You might find yourself worrying about what's going on.....

I've not fitted a  guage myself, someone who has will no doubt chime in and say how it's done, but in principle you need to measure the pressure after the pump and before the pressure release valve (PRV), a way of doing this is to drill a small hole in the crankcase into the right part of the PRV cavity, and then tap the first part of the hole so you can screw a small BSP or other fitting into the tapped hole, then use this fitting to connect up a pressure gauge. obviously there is a risk with drilling your case.....might be best to practice on an old case?

It's probably possible to make a PRV that is a PRV and also has a take off for a pressure gauge but I've not seen a post on that, there are also PRV with pop out buttons available to indicate the pressure is OK but I've heard these are more trouble than they are worth as leak, maybe you might use one until you get a new pump?

SRM pumps are quite pricy but as an alternative you can get hold of an A65 pump which like the SRM (also) has more capacity due to wider gears (tho I'm not sure if that actually extra capacity has any benefit as regards engine life and significantly higher oil pressure) and fit the A10 drive part to it (thats what I've got on my A10).

There are varying opinions on whether it is "worth" risking a rebuild for the sake of the price of a new pump but I bet there are alot more engines out there working just fine with old pumps than there are with SRM one's!
New Zealand

1956 A10 Golden Flash (1st finished project)

1949 B31 rigid “400cc hot rod” (2nd finished project, + favourite bike)

1949 C11 rigid, but why!!! (cos it was cheap)

1937 B21, project missing parts, mission impossible?

GL1800 Goldwing, well, the wife likes it

KTM 950 ADV, cos it’s 100% nuts

1952 Armstrong Siddeley Whitley for rainy days (with wife

Online bsa-bill

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Re: oil presure
« Reply #2 on: 09.04. 2013 10:56 »
think I'm with you on this KiwiGF
It's a nice little job to do and a chance to use your engineering skills but also just another thing to think/worry about.
Lots of the little oil pressure lights on vehicles come on at a very low pressure so yes a gauge is the thing if you want something, a look in the tank does for me.
I think in most cases as your out in the open air, you can hear, smell and feel trouble in many cases
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline Briz

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Re: oil presure
« Reply #3 on: 09.04. 2013 11:47 »
Yes, I agree. A gauge is just a source of worry!
Hot oil pressure is scary-low. You dont want to know!

Online Greybeard

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Re: oil presure
« Reply #4 on: 09.04. 2013 20:43 »
Yes, I agree. A gauge is just a source of worry!
Hot oil pressure is scary-low. You dont want to know!

I used to have a 1929 Austin Seven car. The correct hot oil pressure for those is 5 to 7lb per sq inch. The original oil pressure indication was a button on the dashboard that protruded slightly when there was oil pressure;  I don't know if you would really have noticed it going in while driving!
The four cylinder two bearing crankshaft engine relied on oil splash and mist.

Offline muskrat

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Re: oil presure
« Reply #5 on: 09.04. 2013 20:43 »
 You all know I'll beg to differ  *smile*. A guage will tell of imminent danger quicker than any of my senses. Mine sits on 45 lb at 2500rpm + and 20 lb at idle hot. I once had a problem with a forine body in the oil tank blocking flow but only after about 10 minutes running (warm up lap) down to zero. Stop engine for a minute and restart with full pressure. Certainly would have blown her without a guage.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline shuswapkev

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Re: oil pressure
« Reply #6 on: 09.04. 2013 23:07 »

  the oil pressure guage...
   to me just another mildly interesting add on...like leather tails from my handlebar grips... but i kind of like the ammeter on my matchy...tells me my E3L is producing at least D cell power...well...till i hit the brakes... gonna cure that with an hid globe...
 these engine bits and pieces wouldnt have lasted near 70 years if there had been fatal flaws.. or at least handy blokes...
 and for me..40 years of harleys...and near zero oil pressure

 muskrat..thanks for the pic of the feed thru the timing cover...wouldnt have thought of that......well...not till after i drilled somewhere else.....  and i have a stack of those parts... i am pretty sure i will go with that...

also..looking for a new camshaft...  1951 small fin ...i have a good 334 but am concerned i will end up with ride ,m mower type power.....i bought a new 356...but wasnt any good... i think the heat treat turned it into a banana.. and they dont have another one... all i can find on ebay are 357,s...is there much difference?? 
 i want it to be a bit perky...  this isnt a real restoration.... nothing intersting about a slow bike.....but real interesting makin a slow bike go a little quicker
i,ll post the cam question in another thread...

 cheers  and have a serendipitous day

Offline kiwipom

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Re: oil presure
« Reply #7 on: 10.04. 2013 02:40 »
hi,shuswapkev, ( muskrat..thanks for the pic of the feed thru the timing cover...wouldnt have thought of that.)
 if you look closely i think you will find that the brass fitting is a 90deg elbow that goes in under the prv casing, i could be wrong but that is how it looks to me,cheers,bob
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Offline Gerry

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Re: oil presure
« Reply #8 on: 10.04. 2013 10:50 »
Hi Guys, Hey KiwiGF you say you have fitted a A65 oil pump but with the A10 drive worm gear? Am I correct? If that is so then the crankshaft drive gear on the A65 is different to the A10? What about fitting the crankshaft gear off a A65 and keep the A65 pump gear. This way you could have the tacho drive as well. But does the A65 crankshaft gear fit the A10? Am interested to know as the extra oil flow no matter how minimal has got to be an advantage eh? Cheers. Gerry

Online bsa-bill

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Re: oil presure
« Reply #9 on: 10.04. 2013 11:17 »
Hi Gerry, I'm interested to hear Kiwipoms reply.
I bought an (alleged) A65 some time ago and the difference is the length of the pump, the pump body looks the same but the neck is longer, I think it might be possible to swap the worm and it's housing bit with an A10 one, and wonder if this is what Kiwipom is up to.

Like many things in my shed it's been looked at and put to one side for future projects/fancies, will be interesting to maybe get a bit of heads up n it
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline muskrat

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Re: oil presure
« Reply #10 on: 10.04. 2013 11:26 »
I thought the A65 pump spun the opposite direction.
Kiwipom is correct. It's a 90 degree elbow. Only enough meat for a few threads so a good glue is needed. The hole picks up the oil inboard of the PRV thread.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Online bsa-bill

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Re: oil presure
« Reply #11 on: 10.04. 2013 11:46 »
Quote
I thought the A65 pump spun the opposite direction.

Nah that's just the Ausie ones, same as your water spins out the sink the wrong way around *smiley4* *smiley4*

Seriously Musky I would have to look at the pump, but in any case it wouldn't matter if you could just change the worm to a shorter A10 one (and end housing) if in fact you can, it was just one of those flitting thoughts I often have.
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Online KiwiGF

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Re: oil presure
« Reply #12 on: 10.04. 2013 12:19 »
Hi gerry the main body of the a65 pump is pretty much the same outside as the a10,  it has a bigger hole where it seals against the case gasket im told due to it having a different anti wet sumping valve arrangement but that does not matter, one just bolts on the smaller part of the a10 body onto it , the part which has half of the a10 worm gear pair and away you go.....an uprated pump.

Its not uncommon for the pumps to be stiff especially if parts are used from different pumps but there are various ways to fix this, one common problem is the bolt holes in the smaller part of the body need to be opened out to get the shaft aligned ...all of this fettling of the pump takes time but does not cost $$$$$.
New Zealand

1956 A10 Golden Flash (1st finished project)

1949 B31 rigid “400cc hot rod” (2nd finished project, + favourite bike)

1949 C11 rigid, but why!!! (cos it was cheap)

1937 B21, project missing parts, mission impossible?

GL1800 Goldwing, well, the wife likes it

KTM 950 ADV, cos it’s 100% nuts

1952 Armstrong Siddeley Whitley for rainy days (with wife

Online orabanda

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Re: oil presure
« Reply #13 on: 10.04. 2013 13:22 »
This is where I drill & tap 1/8 BSPT, for oil pressure tapping point, or gauge. The fitting is Swagelock (stainless steel).
Richard

Sorry about the picture size; can;t get it smaller (bugger!)
adm edit: just use 'Attach' to upload to the forum, and get automatic click-thumbs. Fixed it. Nice pictures\work btw.


Offline Gerry

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Re: oil presure
« Reply #14 on: 10.04. 2013 13:59 »
Hi Guys, Well there's two great ideas for tapping into the oil system and I like the Swagelock connection as that will give you a deeper thread I think...reminds me of my EH wagon that I fitted an oil pressure gauge to back in 71 before crossing the Nullabor (1700 miles and 300 miles of dirt road) from Adelaide to Perth, used copper tube from the engine block to the gauge and of course it acted like a bloody stethoscope sending all the engine noises into the cab and sending me into a cold sweat. lol Cheers Gerry