Author Topic: Clutch not disengaging properly  (Read 3283 times)

Online Greybeard

  • Jack of all trades; master of none.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 6028
  • Karma: 35
Re: Clutch not disengaging properly
« Reply #15 on: 17.04. 2013 22:00 »
Yes I have the dome fitted. Yes I have the correct amount of oil. The springs are probably too tight as you say. It's looking like a strip of the clutch.

Offline duTch

  • Ricketty Rocketty Golden Flashback
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 4540
  • Karma: 41
Re: Clutch not disengaging properly
« Reply #16 on: 18.04. 2013 12:48 »


 Neil, Maybe not a need for a 'full strip down', even though it's not much more, just maybe back off the adjustment a bit and get it even, with minimal preferrably no run-out.
  I think I neglected to say with mine when the nuts unwound, it was only half of them and clutch was slipping under load and not so much dragging at standstill, just hard to get back in gear, and crunchy changes, but seems ok for now with different springs. I haven't put the domed cover on, still debating that one.
 I think I read someone else doing similar with a zippie tie on the lever, maybe Andy??
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Online Greybeard

  • Jack of all trades; master of none.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 6028
  • Karma: 35
Re: Clutch not disengaging properly
« Reply #17 on: 23.04. 2013 14:18 »
So, this morning I have taken a look at my clutch that has been dragging when fully warmed up.

First observation: the ATF fluid that I put in about 200 miles ago was brown, no longer red. Is that to be expected?

I removed the plates, most of which came out in one lump; they were quite solidly stuck together; I freed them by tapping with a screwdriver handle. This is the impression I had already got because with the engine stopped, clutch lever pulled in and the kickstarter pushed down, the clutch gripped but then suddenly released, almost with a 'snap'. When I originally reassembled the clutch I washed all the plates off with petrol immediately before assembly. Is it possible that that wash left some sticky residue on the plates?

I had a quick fettle with a file of the basket slots but really they were not very notched. I applied a small amount of copper grease to the hub and basket slots to aid plate movement. I then reassembled the clutch plates in the original order.
I rigged up my dial guage to run on the ridge of the pressure plate and adjusted the 6 springs as best I could while holding the clutch lever in and turning the back wheel while the bike was in fourth.

Before I refitted the engine drive side cover I took the bike out of the garage and put the front wheel against the house wall, started the engine, put her in first and slowly let the clutch in to make sure there was no slippage. Got a new Golden Flash shaped entrance in the kitchen now!

I'm going to go out later and will report back here on my success or otherwise.


Online A10 JWO

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Posts: 727
  • Karma: 2
Re: Clutch not disengaging properly
« Reply #18 on: 23.04. 2013 18:02 »
Neil
When you have your plates out, stack them all together on a flat surface, there should be no spongy movement. they should all sit solid as a lump.if not buckled plates or bad wear. Hope this helps.

Colin

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 8231
  • Karma: 106
  • Lake Conjola NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: Clutch not disengaging properly
« Reply #19 on: 23.04. 2013 20:46 »
 After going back and reading all the posts I think Colin may have the answer, warped plates create drag. As Neil said there all the old plates cleaned in petrol (won't hurt them) and replaced. Check each plate on a piece glass.
I don't like the idea of the grease, it will contaminate the friction plates.
You'll be an expert at clutch removal now.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Online Greybeard

  • Jack of all trades; master of none.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 6028
  • Karma: 35
Re: Clutch not disengaging properly
« Reply #20 on: 23.04. 2013 22:45 »
I had a visitor so still have not been for a test ride.
Musky, I applied the copper grease on the end of a small screwdriver; not great dollops of the stuff!
I'd like to hear your opinion on finding the plates stuck together Is that normal?

Offline KiwiGF

  • Last had an A10 in 1976, in 2011 it was time for my 2nd one. It was the project from HELL (but I learned a lot....)
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 1448
  • Karma: 12
Re: Clutch not disengaging properly
« Reply #21 on: 23.04. 2013 23:44 »
Neil, a small point and others may disagree, but I measure the actual movement of the pressure plate eg. the movement when the clutch lever is pulled right in - first at 2 points diametrically opposite (180 deg) to each other, adjust springs until the movement is equal, then measure at 2 points 90 degrees to the first 2, adjust springs until equal, repeat step 1 and 2, until all 4 points are moving the same, and ALL the springs have the correct (and approximately equal) tension.

After a while it becomes "obvious" which springs to adjust (and how much) that will not mess up the the previous adjustment on the other 2 point,  basically I tighten those springs under or either side of the measuring point, to make it move less.

On my s/a 6 spring clutch I get about 080" of movement from memory, I can get the variance down to 010" quite easily, even 005 with effort, the movement will vary bike to bike depending on your cable free play etc.

Measuring the way you did is good, but there maybe an error from inherent "wobble" - due to the clutch not being straight on the shaft or some other reason.

I'm pretty sure the best result, ref reducing drag, is achieved when the pressure plate moves off the other plates "squarely".
New Zealand

1956 A10 Golden Flash (1st finished project)

1949 B31 rigid “400cc hot rod” (2nd finished project, + favourite bike)

1949 C11 rigid, but why!!! (cos it was cheap)

1937 B21, project missing parts, mission impossible?

GL1800 Goldwing, well, the wife likes it

KTM 950 ADV, cos it’s 100% nuts

1952 Armstrong Siddeley Whitley for rainy days (with wife

Online Greybeard

  • Jack of all trades; master of none.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 6028
  • Karma: 35
Re: Clutch not disengaging properly
« Reply #22 on: 24.04. 2013 09:44 »
...Measuring the way you did is good, but there maybe an error from inherent "wobble" - due to the clutch not being straight on the shaft or some other reason. I'm pretty sure the best result, ref reducing drag, is achieved when the pressure plate moves off the other plates "squarely".

That does make sense. Next time I'll do that. Mind you, while checking mine I periodically operated the clutch and could see that the pressure plate appeared to be coming up evenly:  Not accurate I know.

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 8231
  • Karma: 106
  • Lake Conjola NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: Clutch not disengaging properly
« Reply #23 on: 24.04. 2013 10:29 »
 It's not unusual for the plates to be stuck together on disassembly. Makes getting them out easier. They should separate  by hand easy. It's unlikely there warped if stuck together good, but check anyway.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Online Greybeard

  • Jack of all trades; master of none.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 6028
  • Karma: 35
Re: Clutch not disengaging properly
« Reply #24 on: 24.04. 2013 11:31 »
... It's unlikely there warped if stuck together good...

Yes, that's what I thought.

Online A10 JWO

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Posts: 727
  • Karma: 2
Re: Clutch not disengaging properly
« Reply #25 on: 24.04. 2013 15:54 »
Must admit Musk' that I got that tip from Dave Hopwood from Barkingside in the Uk. He is one of the famous ! Hopwood brothers who work and used to race some years ago. Dave advertises in OBM and still restores or repairs. His BSA runs on Woods Rum.

Colin

Online Greybeard

  • Jack of all trades; master of none.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 6028
  • Karma: 35
Re: Clutch not disengaging properly
« Reply #26 on: 24.04. 2013 15:55 »
Ok, I've now been for a decent ride and the clutch is still good. No slippage and can engage neutral easily when stationary. Woot!

I was surprised to see ATF has been leaking from some of the case screws so I may have put in too much jollop. I'll check the level and also get my trusty blue Hylomar tube out to seal the screw heads.

Online Greybeard

  • Jack of all trades; master of none.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 6028
  • Karma: 35
Re: Clutch not disengaging properly
« Reply #27 on: 24.04. 2013 16:00 »
Thanks everyone who added to my knowledge base on this topic

Offline gold33

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Feb 2009
  • Posts: 110
  • Karma: 1
Re: Clutch not disengaging properly
« Reply #28 on: 17.05. 2013 07:49 »
I notice in the comments you ask about the dome cover Musky... Is that a big deal? Mine is no longer fitted and the studs have been ground off!
Apart from the clutch nut and tab washer issue my clutch was working fine for 3000 Mile without it
Darren
'52 Plunger

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 8231
  • Karma: 106
  • Lake Conjola NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: Clutch not disengaging properly
« Reply #29 on: 17.05. 2013 11:04 »
 G'day Darren, your back safe & sound. Better start a topic in the ap section and tell us of your trip.
I have found that without the cover my clutch slips, I think from too much oil. Maybe newer plates might not be affected like my old (30+ years) plates. I also think the cover would give the basket a bit more rigidity.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7