Author Topic: RGS Gearbox (RGS advise/help sought)  (Read 5464 times)

Offline sprint

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RGS Gearbox (RGS advise/help sought)
« on: 09.04. 2013 14:10 »
adm edit: split from http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=6971.0

Sprint,
              I would think that you would need a complete gear set plus modifying the cases or at least custom made bushes in place of the needle bearings.
You would also need a new speedo drive.
Much easier to get another box and put yours on the shelf or sell it for really silly money.

Trev.

Hi Trev

Thanks for reply.

Simply replacing the G/B may end up being the simplest way. But I want to fully understand what the implication are of converting a RRT2 box to std before I give up.

Offline sprint

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« Reply #1 on: 09.04. 2013 14:11 »
You might want to check that it is a RRT2 inside! Wouldn't be the first time a standard box has had 'RRT2' stamped on it by somebody.... *eek*

It is confirmed that it has a RRT2 cluster and 23 tooth engine sprocket.

Offline sprint

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« Reply #2 on: 09.04. 2013 14:13 »
Pictures of Tricon switch & headlight switch bezel.

Trev.

Thanks for photos. Really helps to know what you are actually looking for. Doubt that I will ever find an original Tricon though?

Online bsa-bill

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« Reply #3 on: 09.04. 2013 14:42 »
Quote
Doubt that I will ever find an original Tricon though?

I would not be too upset by that, I had lights go out  at 90 one dark night in 1962 ish ( I know I know - a gentleman should not venture out at night and defo not go that fast)
it was down to an original Tricon, I have a repro fitted now and so far it's been good, and I have been out at night admittedly not at illegal speeds *smiley4*

Quote
Do you know why the switch is Wipac when all the other electrics are Lucas?Huh
No idea other than BSA supply side of things, could be that it was just difficult to get switches for a while after the war so you took what was available or price was right
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline sprint

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« Reply #4 on: 09.04. 2013 15:57 »
Spoke to Autocycle and they advised that the std mainshaft and cluster would simply slip in? However, the std layshaft would require the removal of the existing needle bearings and a couple of bushes turned up to fit the housings to take the std layshaft? So if that is the case the only parts required would be the need to have a couple of phosphor bronze bushes made and possible a change to the speedo drive gears?

However, when I spoke to somebody else they advised that all you needed to do was the change all the gears on the existing RRT2 shafts to std gears, job done?

Alternatively change the the engine sprocket from 23 to possibly 21 or 20 and leave the G/B alone?

So at this moment there does not seem to be a definitive answer? Possibly only need to change the existing RRT2 gears for std gears or at worst have to find a complete good std cluster (shafts and gears) and remove the layshaft needle bearings and have a couple of bushes made up to accept the std layshaft in the RRT2 box? Or just find a good std complete G/B?

Does anybody actually know if the std gears will fit onto the RRT2 main and layshaft's?

Online chaterlea25

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« Reply #5 on: 09.04. 2013 21:23 »
Hi Sprint
Quote
However, when I spoke to somebody else they advised that all you needed to do was the change all the gears on the existing RRT2 shafts to std gears, job done?

The standard and RRT2 mainshafts are different,
the standard has a spiral groove to take some oil into (or remove it?) from between the 2 bushes in the high speed gear
The RRT2 shaft is plain as the needle roller bearing runs where the spiral is on the std

I will take some photos over the next few days of the different parts and post them
Give me some time as I'm fairly busy at the moment

HTH
John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

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« Reply #6 on: 09.04. 2013 21:45 »
G'day Sprint,
                           I don't understand the logic in changing the engine sprocket.
As the RGS has a 46 tooth rear sprocket, the 23 tooth sprocket gives an overall final drive ratio identical to the standard models.

John,
             I don't have a clue as to why BSA used a Wipac dip switch, maybe Wipac developed it and then flogged it off to the trade.
Different forms were used on the A65, known as a Ducon.
Norton also had them on the Commando.

Trev.

Offline sprint

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« Reply #7 on: 09.04. 2013 23:01 »
G'day Sprint,
                           I don't understand the logic in changing the engine sprocket.
As the RGS has a 46 tooth rear sprocket, the 23 tooth sprocket gives an overall final drive ratio identical to the standard models.

Trev.


Hi Trev


I think the logic was that with the current RRT2 set up 1st gear pull away means slipping the clutch a lot (hence the reason why I am looking at converting to std) and that by dropping the engine sprocket a couple of teeth it may help without having to change the RRT2 cluster to a std cluster?

Offline sprint

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« Reply #8 on: 09.04. 2013 23:03 »
Hi Sprint
Quote
However, when I spoke to somebody else they advised that all you needed to do was the change all the gears on the existing RRT2 shafts to std gears, job done?

The standard and RRT2 mainshafts are different,
the standard has a spiral groove to take some oil into (or remove it?) from between the 2 bushes in the high speed gear
The RRT2 shaft is plain as the needle roller bearing runs where the spiral is on the std

I will take some photos over the next few days of the different parts and post them
Give me some time as I'm fairly busy at the moment

HTH
John

No problem whenever it is convenient to you. Your help and advice is very much appreciated.

As I have not stripped a BSA box before, let a lone a RRT2 box, it is difficult to fully appreciate the differences as there are no exploded diagrams of a RRT2 box that I have seen?

From what I understand the RRT2 box layshaft is supported by two needle bearing rather than the plain bushes of the std box? However, it seems that the bearing journals are a different size so that the two layshafts are not interchangeable?

It is also my understanding that the RRT2 box mainshaft is also supported by needle bearings? I believe it sill has the two roller bearings so does that mean that the mainshaft top gear has the two std bushes replaced by needle bearings?

Your comment about the bearing journal surfaces of the two then make a bit more sense? The spiral groves seen in the diagrams of the std layshaft, as you have indicated, either feed oil to the top gear bushes or try stop it finding its way into the chaincase, which are not present/needed with the needle bearings?

However, it seems that the journal sizes of the two mainshafts are the same size so either could be fitted, but not the layshaft?

There is still the question as to if the RRT2 and std box gears are in fact interchangeable in which case it is only a question of swooping the gears and leave the RRT2 shafts alone?

Online chaterlea25

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« Reply #9 on: 18.04. 2013 00:04 »

Hi Sprint,
Attached are some photos of the STD and RRT2 gearbox components that I hope will help in showing the differences,
The RRT2 box has a recess machined in the main case for the layshaft thrust washer and two different locations for the detent plunger dependine which camplate is fitted.
It has one needle roller bearing and one bush in the high speed gear
Ask away if you have more questions
HTH
John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Offline sprint

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« Reply #10 on: 18.04. 2013 12:41 »
Hi Sprint,
Attached are some photos of the STD and RRT2 gearbox components that I hope will help in showing the differences,
The RRT2 box has a recess machined in the main case for the layshaft thrust washer and two different locations for the detent plunger dependine which camplate is fitted.
It has one needle roller bearing and one bush in the high speed gear
Ask away if you have more questions
HTH
John

Thanks John

Photos are a great help.

Once I have had a chance to digest I am sure there will be a few questions.

Andy

Offline sprint

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« Reply #11 on: 18.04. 2013 18:46 »
Hi Sprint,
Attached are some photos of the STD and RRT2 gearbox components that I hope will help in showing the differences,
The RRT2 box has a recess machined in the main case for the layshaft thrust washer and two different locations for the detent plunger dependine which camplate is fitted.
It has one needle roller bearing and one bush in the high speed gear
Ask away if you have more questions
HTH
John

Thanks John

Photos are a great help.

Once I have had a chance to digest I am sure there will be a few questions.

Andy

Hi John

A couple of questions that you may be able to help with?

1. Are either the std main and/or layshafts directly interchangeable into the RRT2 box, the RRT2 layshaft looks to be physically longer, but are the bearing journals the same dia's?

2. Does look like it may be possible to keep the RRT2 shafts and simply fit the std ratio gears onto the RRT2 shafts?

Thanks

Andy

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« Reply #12 on: 18.04. 2013 22:18 »
John,
             I am curious regarding your RR sleeve gear and main shaft.
It has been many years but I am fairly sure that the last RR box that I played with had 2 needle bearings in the sleeve gear, no bush and no scroll on the main shaft.
Could yours have been modified at some time in the past?
These shafts suffer pretty badly from wear on the bearing surface and the easy fix is to remove the needle bearings and fit bushes.

Trev.

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Re: RGS Gearbox (RGS advise/help sought)
« Reply #13 on: 18.04. 2013 22:46 »
HI Trev,
The mainshaft is plain where the needle roller is and there are two small half scrolls nearer the bush
If two needle rollers were fitted then the shaft would need to be plain all the way and it would need a seal at the outer end????
A new one here looks just like mine
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BSA-GOLD-STAR-A10-GEARBOX-MAINSHAFTS-/261196190651?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item3cd08193bb

Cheers
John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

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Re: RGS Gearbox (RGS advise/help sought)
« Reply #14 on: 18.04. 2013 22:55 »
Thanks John,
                       One tends to forget details after many years! *doh* *doh* *doh*

Trev.