Author Topic: Salt Flash....An A10 for Bonneville.  (Read 14941 times)

Offline Briz

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Salt Flash....An A10 for Bonneville.
« on: 12.05. 2013 16:21 »
After going over to Bonneville last year with a Weslake V-twin bike (and having sold it), The question arose as to what we'd be taking next time - 2014.
At first we entertained using a blown Buell XB lump, but I couldn't get too fired up about it. Coals to Newcastle etc.
31st March was the 40th anniversary of me getting my first A10. So you can see how the train of thought went!
The options were to run in one of 4 classes; AVBG650, AVBF650, AVBG750 nad AVBF750. (A= special construction, ie. not a standard frame, V= vintage - pre '56, BG & BF mean blown gas & blown fuel) No records exist in any of these classes.
With almost no A10 stuff left in the workshop, we set about acquiring stuff. A trip to Newark netted a useable set of cases and other parts:


A trip down to London, and we bought a blank ally cylinder casting from Paul Grayson (discussed elsewhere). Topped, tailled & rough bored it:


Julian (of this parish) has kindly offered to supply cylinder barrel machining data, and has also helped out by supplying Muskrat with a clutch in exchange for his sending over a twin carb A7 ally head:

Profuse thanks to both of you.
You also see a Vauxhall Corsa turbo, which will provide the 'blown' part of the equation. £30 off ebay; just right for an engine of this size.

We all know how rare & expensive large-journal cranks are these days; the last one I saw went for about £300. So the decision to run in the 750 class was made for us when Baz from Harlow came up with a Norton crank from a 750 commando for £50.


Of course it needs a bit of lathe work to to accept BSA timing gear & oilpump drive. Also, an extension piece had to be pressed on to get the full width for the main bearing. Oilpump drive is LH thread, so had to screwcut the thread upside-down.


Obviously, we're using the INA needle roller timing side main. Carefully set the cases up in the mill. Found the main bearing bores out of line by .008"

Bolted the drive side half on and made a light cut in the drive side seal bore:

Used this to centre up when setting up the drive side case to bore out to take a Norton superblend main bearing - 10mm bigger than stock BSA:

To complete the timing side case work, oilways have to be added to supply the end-feed to the crank. This is often done via the bottom timing cover dowel, which is replaced with a hollow one.
Drilled the case & didn't break thru the casting! Lining up the drilling:

And tapping for a 1/8bsp pipe plug:

Next, you have to re-establish connection to the pressure relief valve by milling a groove inside the bearing bore.

Theres the crank in the cases - in dummy bearings. Not ready to press the real ones in yet:


In other news, we sorted out some wheels. Want tubeless tyres, but still want spokes, to keep with the 'vintage' feel. Solution; a couple BMW wheels with crossover spokes which go into the rim edges rather than the centre well. Cut off the disc mountings on the front one. No front brake needed. Will get these chrome-powder-coated at Aerocoat.



Offline JulianM

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Re: Salt Flash....An A10 for Bonneville.
« Reply #1 on: 12.05. 2013 16:43 »
Cool !

I had better get my finger out on that info promissed hadn't I   *eek*

Catch you soon,

Julian
52 Ducati Cucciolo Race bike 50cc
64 Triumph TR6 SS
67 Triumph 100C
67 ILO Race Bike  50cc
71 Sachs Race Bike  50cc
71 Laverda 750SF,
71 Laverda/Egli 750SF, Race bike,
71 Norton Commando 750 Roadster,
71 Norton Commando 750 SS
75 Laverda 3C,
75 Moto Guzzi Le Mans Mk0,
76 Beta Cross TR6  50cc
80 Ducati 900 MHR,
81 Yamaha RD350LC

Online Topdad

  • bob hebdon
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Re: Salt Flash....An A10 for Bonneville.
« Reply #2 on: 13.05. 2013 15:22 »
No disrespects to other forum members but it's quite a priviledge to see work like this from one source but to have 2 ( at least ) members with this level of expertice is quite something. I enjoy reading the varied and interesting posts form everyone but Julians and yours take it to a different level,which I know is way ,way beyond my skill level, I look forward to seeing the finished project (along with Julians) with anticipation, Best of luck, BobH.
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Offline muskrat

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Re: Salt Flash....An A10 for Bonneville.
« Reply #3 on: 13.05. 2013 21:04 »
 I agree totally Bob. I'd have to add MG into the group. I wish I had the machine tools and resources when I was playing with my A7SS racer.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Online WozzA

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Re: Salt Flash....An A10 for Bonneville.
« Reply #4 on: 14.05. 2013 01:06 »
I was hopeing to get to Bonneville this year but a mate pulled out of the trip,
so maybe I'll get to see ya there next September...
a BSA salt flat record has a NICE ring to it eh...  wink2
'51 Golden Flash Plunger
'57 Golden Flash Swingarm

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Offline Briz

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Re: Salt Flash....An A10 for Bonneville.
« Reply #5 on: 24.06. 2013 23:30 »
Last weekend we drove over to Wales to the LSR event at Pendine sands, Whilst in the neighborhood, we drove up to Aberystwyth on Saturday to see the guys at SRM.
A very impressive setup they have there; they can do every aspect of bike resto except for plating. Cool attitude too, ready to apply up-to-date technology wherever its appropriate.
They gave us the grand tour.
I handed over a list of stuff we needed and they went off to find it. I had already brought up the subject of sponsorship; I left it up to them how much they wanted to help - anything from a bit of discount to...well whatever.....
The box of parts appeared, and Gary & Geoff there went off to confer. Shades of Dragons Den!
They came back and said 'right, we'll do 10%'
I wasn't going to show any disappointment and said 'OK'
They then chuckled 'Nooooo, not really! you can have it for nothing'!
At which point we were all overcome with gratitude.
Heres what we got, about £500 worth.
Chrome-moly pushrods, hard-faced lifters, stainless pressure relief valve, set of RGS valves, CNC machined billet oil pump, and various small parts.

Hooray for SRM!

Last week I got the wheels back from Aerochrome in Beccles. Chrome powder coating. Nice job; a good way to renovate manky wheels without rebuilding. Great for us since the salt wont affect it.


A week or so ago, I sold my Pontiac Trans-Am project, which freed up some funds, so I called Dave Branch near Oxford to talk about a billet crank. He agreed to take it on! So we're really going to have a bullet proof bottom end now! Only weak link will be the cases; some extra support wont be difficult to sort out. Looking into cryogenic treatment too.

Offline JulianM

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Re: Salt Flash....An A10 for Bonneville.
« Reply #6 on: 25.06. 2013 08:30 »
Fantastic stuff Briz!!  and a big heads up for SRM  what a good bunch of guys!  (but we already knew that ;o)

Block drawings sorted and being scanned for emailing to you.

Best regards,
Julian
52 Ducati Cucciolo Race bike 50cc
64 Triumph TR6 SS
67 Triumph 100C
67 ILO Race Bike  50cc
71 Sachs Race Bike  50cc
71 Laverda 750SF,
71 Laverda/Egli 750SF, Race bike,
71 Norton Commando 750 Roadster,
71 Norton Commando 750 SS
75 Laverda 3C,
75 Moto Guzzi Le Mans Mk0,
76 Beta Cross TR6  50cc
80 Ducati 900 MHR,
81 Yamaha RD350LC

Offline Briz

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Re: Salt Flash....An A10 for Bonneville.
« Reply #7 on: 01.07. 2013 19:56 »
A package arrived from the states today - big thanks to our friend Drift for helping to get this to us.....
Wiseco pistons:


These are much shorter than the stock ones, only 25mm compression height. So although we're running a 5mm stroker crank, the rods will still need to be 0.265" longer than stock.

Cam.

I had Megacycle in California grind this; its based on one of their catalog grinds but has a bit more lift - 10mm! almost 2mm more than the stock 356 cam.
But less duration. Only want minimal overlap with a turbo.
Compare the new one (left) with a stocker:



Lastly, beehive valve springs. These are the latest thing in valve springs. Actually intended for a Ford 4.6L SOHC V8. Not only do they allow a tiny (lighter) collar, but the varying coil diameters are not prone to harmonics which can cause valve-bounce. Just got to find some colletts which will work!


Online bsa-bill

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Re: Salt Flash....An A10 for Bonneville.
« Reply #8 on: 01.07. 2013 20:02 »
Oh how those old BSA designers would drool over this, (along with the rest of us)
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline Briz

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Re: Salt Flash....An A10 for Bonneville.
« Reply #9 on: 01.07. 2013 20:59 »
I often wonder how ol' Bert Hopwood or Edward Turner would have reacted if someone time-machined a Huyabusa lump onto their desk!
We know how Phil Irving would react..."A V-twin is the only sensible alternative to the single"
So we'd have to send him a TL1000!

Offline a10 gf

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Re: Salt Flash....An A10 for Bonneville.
« Reply #10 on: 01.07. 2013 21:06 »
Great work, great to read !


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Offline Ethelred

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Re: Salt Flash....An A10 for Bonneville.
« Reply #11 on: 01.07. 2013 21:57 »
Fascinating.
Thanks for sharing and good luck on the salt.
'59 A10

Offline Briz

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Re: Salt Flash....An A10 for Bonneville.
« Reply #12 on: 13.08. 2013 21:58 »
Finally getting stuck into it now. Got some customer stuff cleared so I'm on it for a month or so now.
I need to assemble a mockup engine assy, so I resumed work on the barrel casting.  I'm doing it the old fashioned way in the Bridgeport.
Took the top-end off the Bobber and plotted the top & bottom bolt patterns. The stock barrel was all over the place! fortunately, when BSA designed the A10 they mostly used rational measurement units - sixteenths of an inch here- So figuring out what the dimensions should be was easy.

Top bolt pattern - tapped the holes 10mm rather than 3/8 BSF:



Bottom holes:


And doing the spigots on the ol' rotary:


The rearmost bottom holes ended up too far back and so I'll need to build it up with weld.

Doing the cam follower bores was a bit heart-in-mouth as screwing it up would junk the whole job.
First thing was to bolt the stock barrels onto the cases with a pointer in a lifter bore to check for misalignment:

Not too bad, maybe ten thou out.

Set the mill up using the stock barrels. Drilled the angle plate so I could bolt the stock set on and then the ally casting in the same place:


And there's the followers in place! Got the fit just about right...phew!


Offline muskrat

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Re: Salt Flash....An A10 for Bonneville.
« Reply #13 on: 14.08. 2013 00:11 »
Great work Briz. It would be nerve racking, one miss calc and bugga.
Being an old machinist I can appreciate the amount of work just in setting up.
Best of luck with it.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline A10 JWO

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Re: Salt Flash....An A10 for Bonneville.
« Reply #14 on: 14.08. 2013 17:12 »
A great thread, hope we see lots of footage of the run and picture of the year.

Well done, Colin