Author Topic: Not charging  (Read 5938 times)

Online Greybeard

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Not charging
« on: 21.06. 2013 16:58 »
Hi chappies,
Will you give me your advice please?

On my 1955 GF I'm not seeing a charge at the ammeter. It shows a small discharge when the pilot light is on and a larger value when the main headlight is on but no movement toward zero when the engine is revved. From this I think that the bikes ammeter is connected and working.

I've disconnected the dynamo connections and clipped the black lead crocodile clip of my multimeter leads across both dynamo sockets with the red lead connected to earth: the dynamo shows a voltage of 6.5v at tickover and rises to 14v or so when the engine is revved. From this I believe the problem is not the dynamo.

During the bikes restoration I fitted a Wassel electronic voltage regulator inside an old regulator box soldering the wires on to the terminals I've also soldered the bike loom connections to the regulator box external connections.

So, is it the regulator?

I understand that Wassell regulators are not popular with you lot, so should I just order a better unit? Recommendations please.

Any other suggestions?

Many thanks chaps!

Offline Beezageezauk

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Re: Not charging
« Reply #1 on: 21.06. 2013 17:41 »
I know where you're coming from.  Been there...done that...waiting for the t-shirt.

I would suspect your regulator.  I had 3 Wassel units on my A10 before I got one that worked.  Since then I've had 2 good ones from the same supplier but he was good enough to try them on his own A10 prior to dispatch.  That way I know that I can fit and forget.

Beezageezauk.

Offline Ethelred

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Re: Not charging
« Reply #2 on: 21.06. 2013 19:25 »
I replaced mine with a solid state one, a DVR2, from dynamoregulators.com. £48 and no more problems. Apparently they can be fitted inside the original casings if that's important to you.
'59 A10

Offline morris

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Re: Not charging
« Reply #3 on: 21.06. 2013 23:25 »

Same goes for me, only I have a Boyer Bransden on mine. It's a fit and forget.

http://www.boyerbransden.com/PBdynamo.html
'58 BSA A 10 SA
'52 BSA A 10 Plunger
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Offline wilko

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Re: Not charging
« Reply #4 on: 22.06. 2013 01:30 »
Make sure it matches the polarity on your bike. Neg or pos earth?

Offline KiwiGF

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Re: Not charging
« Reply #5 on: 22.06. 2013 03:11 »
Graybeard, it sounds like regualtor, but did it ever charge?
Ive got a dvr2, works fine, but i must confess i nearly ruined it, after i got the charging going, by connecting the battery the wrong way  a bit later during the resto, lucky for me the dvr2 has inbuilt protection against that school boy error, but not all electronic regs will have that protection i guess......i dont know about the wassel unit.

By the way, your symptoms might be consistent with the battery the wrong way round.......and if you have done that it may be necessary to flash the field winding.
New Zealand

1956 A10 Golden Flash EA7-168x, CA10 913x, left BSA together for Liverpool, 5th Dec 1955.

1949 B31 rigid “400cc hot rod” (favourite bike)

1949 C11 rigid, but why!!! (cos it was cheap)

1937 B21, missing parts so mission impossible?

1952 Armstrong Siddeley Whitley for rainy days (with wife).

GL1800 Goldwing not sure why, maybe cos it always starts

Online Greybeard

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Re: Not charging
« Reply #6 on: 22.06. 2013 10:14 »
KiwiGF,
Yes, up to now the ammeter has been showing a move to the right when revs are raised. I haven't reversed the battery connections:  I have a soldered-on short lead from the battery that terminates in a tounged plug and socket under the saddle for ease of disonnection and top-up charging while the bike is off the road in the winter.

My naked dynamo voltage test demonstrated positive earth polarity.

I've ordered a DVR2 as I'm pretty sure the regulator is to blame.

Offline KiwiGF

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Re: Not charging
« Reply #7 on: 22.06. 2013 12:32 »
Hi greybeard i think youve drawn the right concluion please let us know the outome, sounds like the duff parts thing again!
New Zealand

1956 A10 Golden Flash EA7-168x, CA10 913x, left BSA together for Liverpool, 5th Dec 1955.

1949 B31 rigid “400cc hot rod” (favourite bike)

1949 C11 rigid, but why!!! (cos it was cheap)

1937 B21, missing parts so mission impossible?

1952 Armstrong Siddeley Whitley for rainy days (with wife).

GL1800 Goldwing not sure why, maybe cos it always starts

Offline PaulC

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Re: Not charging
« Reply #8 on: 22.06. 2013 18:57 »
I have the same problem. Ammeter shows discharging when the lights are switched on and the engine isnt running, but stays stubbornly on zero when the engine is running, no matter how high the revs. Should I have engine running AND lights on to see the ammeter showing charging? My battery is on a charger/conditioner so is always fully charged when I first start up.

I'm afraid I'm too new to this to understand discussion about regulators and putting multimeters across dynamo contacts. Will I get any clues by putting a multimeter across the battery terminals?

Thanks

Paul
A10 Super Rocket 1959
Norton International Model 40 1949
Triumph Thruxton R 2016
Ducati Multistrada 1200S Touring 2014


Online Greybeard

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Re: Not charging
« Reply #9 on: 22.06. 2013 19:14 »
Paul,

My understanding is that when the battery is fully charged there should not be, (actually cannot be) any charge going into the battery, hence no charge showing on the ammeter. Try allowing the battery to flatten a bit by leaving the lights on without the engine running for a while and see if after that you get a small positive value at the ammeter as the system tops up the battery.

You have to remember that on a magneto machine the battery is doing no work until you use the lights, stop-light or horn. In a coil ignition system the battery is being worked all the time as it's providing power for the ignition.

Offline Ethelred

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Re: Not charging
« Reply #10 on: 22.06. 2013 20:31 »
Should I have engine running AND lights on to see the ammeter showing charging?

Yes.

When you turn the lights on it starts to discharge the battery, so the ammeter goes negative, then the regulator susses out the battery needs charging and kicks in so the ammeter swings back to the middle and should go positive.
'59 A10

Online Triton Thrasher

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Re: Not charging
« Reply #11 on: 22.06. 2013 22:57 »
Paul,

My understanding is that when the battery is fully charged there should not be, (actually cannot be) any charge going into the battery, hence no charge showing on the ammeter. Try allowing the battery to flatten a bit by leaving the lights on without the engine running for a while and see if after that you get a small positive value at the ammeter as the system tops up the battery.

You have to remember that on a magneto machine the battery is doing no work until you use the lights, stop-light or horn. In a coil ignition system the battery is being worked all the time as it's providing power for the ignition.


You're right. With engine idling, switch on the headlight. The ammeter should show a discharge.

Rev up. The ammeter reading should rise to zero. If that happens, there is nothing wrong with your charging system.

 If the  battery was low, it may show a charge above zero, for a while.


Offline KiwiGF

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Re: Not charging
« Reply #12 on: 23.06. 2013 00:53 »
When I was setting up my mechanical reg (before buying a dvr2) i noticed the battery discharges through the dynamo at low dynamo revs, so it's not the lights drawing power from the battery? The electronic regs do not "waste" power like this, or at least not as much, and if its one of the better designs.

The lucas type ammeters are pretty inaccurate i suspect, but better than nothing!
New Zealand

1956 A10 Golden Flash EA7-168x, CA10 913x, left BSA together for Liverpool, 5th Dec 1955.

1949 B31 rigid “400cc hot rod” (favourite bike)

1949 C11 rigid, but why!!! (cos it was cheap)

1937 B21, missing parts so mission impossible?

1952 Armstrong Siddeley Whitley for rainy days (with wife).

GL1800 Goldwing not sure why, maybe cos it always starts

Online trevinoz

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Re: Not charging
« Reply #13 on: 23.06. 2013 01:55 »
Kiwi,
           The mechanical regulator should not discharge through the dynamo at low revs.
As the revs drop and the output voltage from the dynamo drops, the voltage will reach a critical value and the shunt coil on the cut-out will not be able to hold against the spring.
Also, when the output voltage drops below battery voltage, there will be a momentary reverse flow of current into the dynamo which will create an opposite magnetic field via the series coil on the cut-out and negates the magnetism from the shunt coil.
Clear as mud?

Trev.

Online Greybeard

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Re: Not charging
« Reply #14 on: 23.06. 2013 10:24 »
Doh, now you've done it Trevinoz! PaulC has just dissapeared over the horizon!