Author Topic: Allen Head Sump Plate Studs  (Read 1230 times)

Offline gavinoz

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Allen Head Sump Plate Studs
« on: 09.08. 2013 22:57 »
Hi All, RGS-Bill sent me this, thought it was pretty interesting

I did not use the studs that came with the Draganfly sump plate magnetic drain. I bought longer stainless Allen head studs, and stainless split washers , and "NYLOC" nuts and loctited them in with blue Loctite, so I would not mess up the threads in the case  again.  I already had to drill and tap one size larger, and buy a bottoming tap to get threads further in, from taking in and out all the time. I first put it on so could drain completely on the center stand, (facing rear) until I read here on the forum, that the magnet could interfere with the check ball in the pick up, (sump return oil to tank and rockers)  So now  I am thinking of going to the left side so it drains completely when on the side stand, and the magnet is further away from the check ball. Just do not know if the stud holes in the sump are equidistant so it can be turned sideways, plus if the sump drain plug ever worked its way loose and fell out, the sump oil might hit the left hot exhaust pipe and let me know, going to soon be out of oil, after the tank empties out.  I use stainless Allen head studs where ever I can , I am really sold on them. (Concerning allen end tappet cover studs) You need a ball end Allen wrench for a couple of them, gives you a better angle of the dangle to get in there, if you keep the tank on.
                BILL
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Australia

Offline terryg

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Re: Allen Head Sump Plate Studs
« Reply #1 on: 10.08. 2013 06:00 »
Dropped off a bottom end for some work yesterday and was talking, amongst other things, about possibly helicoiling the sump plate stud threaded holes in prep for hex socket cap machine screws (I think SRM include these with their kit).  Decided to stay with studs and not go to screws but there may still be some thread work to do, we'll see when taking a closer look after splitting the cases.  Regardless of how good thread inserts are I like the idea of fitting the stud and 'forgetting', instead of removing that threaded portion every time the sump plate comes off.
Terry
'57 'SR', '59 SR, '63 RGS

Offline bsa-bill

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Re: Allen Head Sump Plate Studs
« Reply #2 on: 10.08. 2013 09:30 »
Quote
from taking in and out all the time

I think the idea of a sump drain plug is that you don't have to take out the studs all the time.
True tho that in some cases (pun) the studs are worn from this very thing.

I turned my sump plate to get the magnet away from the return ball, never had a problem with it but seemed like a good idea, think the studs are equidistant IIRC.
The original studs are too short of course for the thicker sump plate so if your going to replace them you have a choice to make, I used longer studs with loctite, my thinking was it would make fitting the plate easier by offering it up onto the studs rather than trying to enter the hex studs blind so to speak
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline A10 JWO

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Re: Allen Head Sump Plate Studs
« Reply #3 on: 10.08. 2013 17:46 »
On my rebuild this year I fitted the new SRM oil pump ( good ) and a new SRM Sump. I was concerned about getting the sump studs out after 60 years, but bingo; no issues there. I fitted the sump with new gaskets and that blue compound, no leaks in that dept'. But the oil leaks down the threads of the allen bolts ( not enough to worry about ) Next time I will put that blue stuff in the threads. Just thought I would pass it on in the hope that one day I will get one of those Karma things next to my name.

regards Colin
Southend

Offline duTch

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Re: Allen Head Sump Plate Studs
« Reply #4 on: 12.08. 2013 12:00 »


 Hey Col, I was concerned about using socket cap screws on the sump cover too, but on mine the threads are blind (don't go right through the crankcase), so unless yours is different, there's no way of oil leaking down the threads from inside unless it seeps through the joint..(mating surface).??
 
    cheers, duTch
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
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Offline oldnyk

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Re: Allen Head Sump Plate Studs
« Reply #5 on: 23.03. 2018 18:29 »
As for Studs and Sump Plug, I have decided to fit the SRM  Sump Plate I got off E-Bay in conjunction with one of quick Valve UK Valves screwed into the Sump Plate instead of the Drain Plug. The Quick valve has a Spring operated Thumb Lever which is very easy to use to open the Valve and can be left in the open position to let the oil drain from your Sump if you choose or as I said easy operation to open the Valve to drain the Sump after storage of your Bike. Lot easier than taking a Drain Plug out !.  *smile*. Not cheap though, just under £80 buying both items. It's worth the cost for me.Makes the job a lot easier.
http://www.quickvalve.co.uk/f109_details.htm
P.S. I get most things off E-Bay  *smile*

Online muskrat

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Re: Allen Head Sump Plate Studs
« Reply #6 on: 23.03. 2018 19:59 »
Not a bad idea oldnyk but Id be worried about knocking it off when I jump gutters.
Cheers
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Offline oldnyk

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Re: Allen Head Sump Plate Studs
« Reply #7 on: 23.03. 2018 21:43 »
Not a bad idea oldnyk but Id be worried about knocking it off when I jump gutters.
Cheers

I'm too old for them antics now Mate  *smile* *eek*, good on yer.

Offline Rgs-Bill

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Re: Allen Head Sump Plate Studs
« Reply #8 on: 23.03. 2018 21:50 »
Not a bad idea oldnyk but Id be worried about knocking it off when I jump gutters.
Cheers

    I would be more worried about the holding spring failing and have the oil gone as soon as it pumped a tankful of oil down to the incoming side of the motor, there would be nothing for the scavenge pump to pump back to the tank, good bye motor ! ! ! !

    Pretty much the same reason I will not fit an anti sump valve, to the in feed line, forget to turn it on once and motor is toast. ! ! ! !
U S of A
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1962 RGS
78 YEARS OLD
Still Kick Starting My Motor (9 TO 1)
Although getting a bit tougher to do ! !

Offline Rgs-Bill

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Re: Allen Head Sump Plate Studs
« Reply #9 on: 23.03. 2018 22:11 »


 Hey Col, I was concerned about using socket cap screws on the sump cover too, but on mine the threads are blind (don't go right through the crankcase), so unless yours is different, there's no way of oil leaking down the threads from inside unless it seeps through the joint..(mating surface).??
 
    cheers, duTch

     I use stainless allen head valve cover studs (no head on it, just allen head ) with blue Loctite, and spring type lock washers and NYLOCK nuts, never a leak ever.  When loosening to remove valve covers, hold the stud with an allen wrench so it can not loosen and eventually gall the threads, so they will no longer tighten up.
    Samo with the sump plate, only use hardened studs instead of stainless, and blue Loctite, and hold with allen wrench so the threads can not loosen and start galling the sump plate threads in the engine block.  If you are really gutsy, and confident you could use RED Loctite, permanent, but I am not that gutsy.  I already had to drill one sump bolt hole to next size larger, and tap it because of previous owners screw ups.  Did not have access to hellicoils, besides do not like them much
U S of A
N.W. Corner, Seattle 
1962 RGS
78 YEARS OLD
Still Kick Starting My Motor (9 TO 1)
Although getting a bit tougher to do ! !

Offline duTch

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Re: Allen Head Sump Plate Studs
« Reply #10 on: 24.03. 2018 02:44 »
 As I've said before that, since I've been educated in the benefits (better torque advantage/resistance to vibration loosening),  I've become an advocate for using the standard studs with  BSC nuts- and nyk, I'm sorry but I also think the valve thing is pointless and dodgy as per previous suggestions
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline BSA_54A10

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Re: Allen Head Sump Plate Studs
« Reply #11 on: 24.03. 2018 08:07 »
Quote
I would be more worried about the holding spring failing and have the oil gone as soon as it pumped a tankful of oil down to the incoming side of the motor, there would be nothing for the scavenge pump to pump back to the tank, good bye motor ! ! ! !

    Pretty much the same reason I will not fit an anti sump valve, to the in feed line, forget to turn it on once and motor is toast. ! ! ! !

You would notice it pretty quickly, particularly if you fitted it pointing directly towards the rear wheel.
Bike Beesa
Trevor

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Re: Allen Head Sump Plate Studs
« Reply #12 on: 24.03. 2018 10:14 »
...hope that one day I will get one of those Karma things next to my name.
Looks like you got your wish.

Offline oldnyk

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Re: Allen Head Sump Plate Studs
« Reply #13 on: 24.03. 2018 20:33 »
So far so good,no problems !