b s a r g s

[arch@talktalk.net]

Hi there does anybody have any thoughts on this i have B S A A10 with a 1958 super rocket engine fitted to a genuine rocket gold star frame that i purchased brand new in 1969,The police stamped my old frame number onto the R G S frame which was a CA7 of 1955, so for the purpose of insurance would you say it was Road Rocket or a Rocket Gold Star
Thanks for any thoughts Arch

[terryg]

I suspect you may get as many opinions as replies to your post.  I'd say the only foolproof way to answer your question is to go to an insurer capable of talking sensibly about the designation, which may not be a simple matter.

Search the forum for 'insurance' and you'll see who people are using for preference - Peter James, Pete Best, Portwood and so on.

Good luck and tell us what you find out.

[arch@talktalk.net]

Thanks for your reply Terry

[Tomcat]

Hi Arch, interesting Question. You say that you have a frame (a motorcycle) that was built in '55 and an engine that was built in '58. And that you bought it new in '69. My guess is that the insurance company would say you have a 1955 BSA A7 motorcycle with an A10 engine. The computer would tell the 'salesperson' that RGS's were only built in '62 & '63. What happened to the old '55 frame number? Was it over stamped? Why was the frame changed? Has it been registered with the new GA10 number? Cheers Tomcat

[arch@talktalk.net]

Hi there Tomcat i had taken the bike for a M O T back in 1969 at Tom Swallows in Oldbury West/Midlands UK and i was told by Colin the guy that run the place  that the frame was twisted,i then said to him i will have to get a frame then,he then told he a brand rocket gold star frame that a guy had ordered  but then decided to get married so he did not buy it,i said to Colin how much do want for the frame and the price was £25.00 so i bought it and transferred all the parts over from the old frame witch was a 1955 CA7 number and a road rocket,i then got touch with the police and they came to my house at that time and stamped the CA7 number on the new frame
Thanks for the reply Tomcat regards Arch

[RichardL]

Arch,

First of all, welcome to the forum. Though I'm in the U.S., I'm sure it would be interesting to our U.K. members to have a general idea of your whereabouts and, maybe, useful to you to know fellow enthusiasts nearby.

I can't say what the MOT or insurance regulations require in the UK, but if it were my bike here in the U.S., I would choose my model moniker based on the vehicle ID used on the title. For example, if the bike is titled by the frame number and has half-width hubs I'd call it a Road Rocket. If it's titled by the engine number and you have full-width hubs, I'd call it a Super Rocket. If it's titled by the engine and has half-width hubs, I guess it's choose between Road Rocket and Rocket Gold Star. In this case, I'd be inclined to use "Road Rocket" so that I was not seen as illegitimately trying to make my bike appear to be more than it is. Really, right now it's not anything specific, so call it what you want, if the law allows.

Contrary to Tomcat's post, the "A7" in the '55 frame number does not designate the bike as an A7. Or, maybe he just believes that is how the insurance nerds would see it.

By the way, there may/will be dissenting opinions regarding my comments, and that's great, because I could be dead wrong. I look forward to hearing them.

Richard L.

[chaterlea25]

Hi
From a financial point of view it would be worth sourcing a correct year frame and either renumbering it to match your original frame or getting one with a log book
Then make mint selling the RGS frame minus number ????

My 2 cents worth
John

[RichardL]

John (or others),

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that any significant financial benefit is from frame and engine having left the factory together. Would it really add much if it happens to be a year-correct frame but not the one from birth?

I'm not asking this frivolously, as it could apply to my own A10 as well.

Richard L.

[chaterlea25]

Hi Richard and All,
It was kind of a "tongue in cheek" post mainly to see if there would be a flurry of "philistine" remarks 

Its similar to antique restorations when one of a set of antique chairs is missing, the ""restorer"" takes one piece from each remaining chair and fits a replacement part to each chair, building the missing chair from the spare original parts completing the set as "original"

When RGS models are being advertised at £20,000 upwards its no wonder "replicas" are being built
If you start off with an original RGS frame which is one of the unique parts and probably the hardest to find
the prospective build could becomes attractive

John

[RichardL]

Got it.

[A10Boy]

If I understand this correctly, you bought a genuine RGS frame - un-numbered? The police then stamped the numbers from your old 1955 A10 [R/Rocket] onto this frame.

To me, the question is would DVLA recognise it as an RGS, presumably not as the numbers are 55 [R/Rocket] Numbers and that's all they will consider.

[arch@talktalk.net]

Hi there all i think you are missing the point here these frames where only used on the rocket gold star and are unique to that modle only
The registration books only list the make, I. E. B S A Taxation class I. E. Motorcycle, Colour, Type of fuel,Chassis number,Engine number and .CC .I E. 650,the late DA10R Engines as we all know where fitted to other modles as well the R G S so it the the frame that makes the bike,and no i would not sell the frame why would i since I've had it since 1969 to make a bit of money no way
Regards Arch

[RichardL]

So, getting back to what to call it, it really doesn't matter. What matters is how much you enjoy riding it. Many here have excellent and beautiful "bitsas". My own A10 is a bitsa (but, for humility's sake, I won't say it's excellent or beautiful).  Since neither the number on the engine or number on the frame would pass RGS scrutiny if anyone cared, like I said before, call it anything you want and tell doubters to "go their way" (code for going somewhere worse). That can include me and the rest of the forum members if you're inclined. Folks here a pretty easy that way.

Richard L.

[muskrat]

Sort of like my cafe. It started life as a '57 A7SS. It got a new set of cases and grew to a 650. The insurance co call it a road rocket but it's more like a super rocket. I still call it the cafe.
Even if it's stamped a CA7 anyone in the know would look at the frame and tell it's a RGS. The problem I see is being able to insure it for enough to cover a real RGS frame. Down here a good RR would insure for about $10K, a RGS would insure for about $25K.
Cheers

[A10Boy]

Hi Arch.

You asked for thoughts on it for insurance purposes. Presumably if you insured it as a RGS and it was stolen you would expect a RGS sized pay out, the insurance company could check with BSA GSOC who might tell them it doesn't have RGS numbers, and the insurance company would then say its not an RGS.

Good luck