Battery issue?

[bsa-bill]

Seems like I'm just unlucky then as three of the last four batteries I've had went duff.
On reflection the good one was ordered for me from my MOT guy (it's a Vartra) the other three (one branded Lucas) were bought online - perhaps there's a lesson to be learnt

PS The Lucas one was identical in every dimension/shape colour and spec as another with a far Eastern name

[muskrat]

I'll throw in another vote for the Motobatt. The only type (AGM) that will crank over my rHonda. Discharge rate is much much less than a wet battery.
Cheers

[bsa-bill]

The Lucas one I had was AGM ( somit Glass Mat - is that right) it kept it's voltage for more than a year on the shelf but once on the bike it gave up keeping any charge for more than a day.
Present battereis are doing fine with same set up

[muskrat]

Absorbed Glass Matt. The 1st one I got for the rHonda gave up and was replaced. It's been great for about 2 years now. I have another in the A65, it's been off the road since the blow up a few months back. Just checked it, 12.6 volts. Maybe they like our weather better .
Cheers

[BSA500]

I thought seeing as the battery is fubarred I would try hooking it up to my car battery charger(8 amp rate) to see what happens. After about 2 hours it started to take a charge so I unhooked it and put it on my bike charger. Its holding the charge and accepted a full charge. Using it today and so far its good(might not last but we will see, nothing ventured nothing gained):)

[BSA_54A10]

You need to remember 6  letters when it comes to vehicle batteries
P pressure
V valve
R regulated
A absorbent
G glass
M matt

Any brand that is PVR & AGM will run rings around any other type of battery in maximum power delivery ( CCM )  and minimum self discharge.
Spiral wound ( Cylons & Optimas ) are even better because of greater plate surface area and substantially higher mechanical strength.

[duTch]

  ..To continue on from...
 http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=8905.15,

          after only a year and a half of use from new.....
 My 'cheapo' battery started not holding charge, and after a few seshes on the charger to no avail, headed off to the battery shop....halfway through the newest maybe biggest intersection in town, I heard a funny scraping sound......looked back and saw something on the road as a truck went past a a guy sung out.."BATTERY'.....friggin' 'ooligans....    uhooooh I think they just drove over my battery (...intentionally..?) didn't matter- their lust for glory was already short-circuited.....

Anyway to cut the long story long, in my haste, I'd not done the locknuts up enough on the holder, and vibrations cut them loose....and the battery fell out on the road(see pic- again)..lucky I was on the way to th eBatto shop, scraped up the bits that you see.....and bought a new battery- the guys there never saw one that flat either 

 So,new batto- off I went- volt meter said what I thought it should say, but trouble is, after only a few days, the new batto started doing same as last one- not holding charge...even with a charger boost..and after a couple of weeks, figured it's dud, so took it back and they swapped it.......off I went...!

  Trouble is after a few days, the new-new batto started doing the same as last-(first new) one-not holding charge- NO , you read right, it's a ditto sitto...
   
  Now to todayish...as far as I'm aware I haven't connected anything wrong, when i'm riding the volt/amp meters say what I think they should say....but the batto just wants to sleep (lay down and die a premature death)... I haven't had much chance to analyze properly, vocational pleasure is interfering with my life....maybe I'll need to update more later, but was wondering if it's possible while everything was disconnected the polarity went 'funny' -nudge,nudge-wink,wink.....? Yea know whut I mean.?

[jachenbach]

If anything is suspect, I always check for idle current draw and verify the charging system when replacing a battery, especially if it's less than a few years old. Easy on these old bikes, as there should be no current draw when idle, just see if it sparks when you hook up the battery. Also, according to manufacturers (and what I think I've learned from experience) initial prep of a new battery has a huge effect on it's life. That is, be sure it is fully charged before installing it for the first time.
  As to battery choice, I put an Odyssey in one of my Guzzis in spring 2008. The bike doesn't run from early November until early March (winter in Idaho mountains) and I don't even own a trickle charger. Last winter I actually removed it for the first time because I was using it to test other project bikes and gave it a charge before reinstalling. It's still working. My Jeep has had it's Optimate since 2002 and still starts in below 0 Fahrenheit weather. Between my experience and the customers where I work, I am completely sold on the superiority of AGM and Gel batteries. Li-ion, on the other hand, is not yet ready for primetiime, IMO.

[duTch]

If anything is suspect, I always check for idle current draw and verify the charging system when replacing a battery, especially if it's less than a few years old. Easy on these old bikes, as there should be no current draw when idle, just see if it sparks when you hook up the battery. Also, according to manufacturers (and what I think I've learned from experience) initial prep of a new battery has a huge effect on it's life. That is, be sure it is fully charged before installing it for the first time.

  I prepared both the first two batteries to the letter, so there should be no issue there....and when the first one went funny, the first thing I did was check for any current with the multi-meter, all switches off then on, and all seemed ok. Then with battery isolated(disconnected), checked for any leakage to earth with switches in 'off '...all seemed ok....couldn't really think much else to check.

    I also checked the reg. a couple of months ago, as per the Lucas instructions but will go over it again this a.m., check all is connected properly and go for a spin and see what happens.......
   Normally I have spare days during the week when I can do these things and it's ok to annoy the neighbours, but last few weeks been suckered into some 'vocational fulfillment'...

[duTch]

 Gave up on the research and went and got on with it, think I may be on to something.....

 The Field wire inside the Generator (dynamo) cover has rubbed on the cover, and burned the wire at the connector- just have to hope it's ok......

  The other genny has an old ugly piece of inner tube as an insulator, and I had planned on doing same here but neater, but fergot...!!!!!   
 On the upside all the neighbours are doing the mowing so I can join in with a startup....TBC

Ok well that didn't take long, so I'll just edit this.....and I forgot to paste the picture anyway....had the batto charged up, but was losing volts as I looked at it, by the time I had it hooked up, not enough to fire the tail light, down to <5v, but soon as I started up all good- lights all work Front AND rear brake light operation the whole kit and kaboodle...

 Moral of the story- as soon as a problem becomes apparent, and BEFORE blaming the battery (or whatever) and installing a new one, check it out......NOTE TO SELF


 ..but at least we had a good ol' chinwag about things

So hoping/assuming that was my problem, I'm off to buy some insulating material..!!!! and finish

[duTch]

 Well this has turned into a saga...Re; previous posts.

 I'm up to I think a fourth new battery-good thing they are the cheapest I can find, maybe that's the problem, but shouldn't think four.
 I think the story stopped after the second one- the story so far;
 ....   I think the guy at the battery shop prepped the first new one to replace the dead flat one.
 That one didn't last, he swapped it gratis ..but when I found the field wire shorting I fessed up, but he'd already done a warranty claim so no probs there, but there's something crazy going on because as soon as I add a new battery, it blows a cell or two  (6V)...!

 The dynamo/generator is charging fine, and I re-checked the regulator, cuts in/out at the right places, and holds a steady regulated ~7.6V, and runs all the lights ok at fast idle upwards, but I noticed today the rear brake light switching sends the amps to '+' insted of '-', maybe 'cos of where it takes off in the circuit...˚~˚

 Today I may have discovered something though... as far as I can tell there's no shorts or power leakage, but found a blown fuse in the U-beaut fuse holder from Jaycar, that connects to the battery...http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=SZ2043

  I was playing with the fuse holder the other week to see what the LED was supposed to do, and it ( LED= blown fuse indicator) only works on 12V, but with a blown or no fuse the disconnected stand alone item has ~1.35* (2kΩ scale) across the fuse terminals (though the LED, I guess), so am wondering if that resistance could be causing a problem, because it's the wire that takes the charge to the battery, and any load out,  - but it was fine for 18months...??

 I reckon I'll change the fuse holder and see what happens. I bought another smaller 6ah battery to test with, it's a bit cheaper, and they don't have any 13ah ones left anyway...
 
I hope some of that makes sense to anyone...I'm open to suggestions, but can't expect a lot of glory.. , and I'm otherwise stuck for words!!

 ~a few hours later *edited

(2kΩ scale from 'kΩ')

@ 09:30 my time 24/02/15 ~23:30 GMT/UTC

[muskrat]

"I'm otherwise stuck for words!!"
I'd replace the fuse holder and remove the LED completely.
The dynamo is supposed to have an insulator (cork) inside the cover. piece of cornflakes packet inside mine!!
Cheers

[trevinoz]

No cork inside the pressed or cast end caps, Musky.
Dutch, you're correct about the stop light causing the ammeter to show positive. If the feed was connected to the same place as the lights, the ammeter would show negative.

Trev.

[duTch]

 Yo Musky that's changed- and I pulledth sock out for a while....

  Trev, why no cork? It needs something to keep the weather/dust out of  the belt/chain chamber...??

 I also have a fabricated bottom of a drink bottle to insulate inside the brush chamber, as I discovered that the brush holder plate is probably not the matching one for the alloy cover, as per discussion elsewhere a while ago.

  I forgot to say I was wondering why the Amp didn't register anything while riding (except the rear brake going '+'), even though lights and everything work and it's obviously charging ~7.6V /(~6.4 @battery )- obviously with the fuse blown, and due to resisted continuity across the now gone LED...
 Also think I need to run an earth wire from the handle bar for the horn, it's a bit pissant..!!

 * note I edited my previous post

(2kΩ scale not 'kΩ')

[muskrat]

This is what I meant Trev. to stop any chance of the brush tail shorting against the cover.
Cheers