Author Topic: Bit of advise wanted  (Read 2336 times)

Online morris

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Bit of advise wanted
« on: 21.01. 2014 22:43 »
Beginning of last year I replaced the old carburettor on the SA with a brandnew Amal 389.
It came with a 30 pilot, 106 needle jet, 250 main jet, #3 1/2 cutaway. I had to replace the pilot with a 25, but after that it became a first kick starter, with just some choke when cold. Only small problem left was a little hesitation when opening the throttle a bit to enthusiastic from the closed position.
For some time now the SA became reluctant to start. Needed at least 20-30 kicks to go on a really rough tickover, and when opening the throttle it stalls. I had a 20 and a 35 pilot lying around, so after some experimenting, it turned out it started best with the 35 pilot.
It seems to me that the mixture is to lean, so I need a smaller cutaway. I found that while holding my fingers in front of the cutaway, it reacts better on the throttle movement
I ordered a #3 and a #2 1/2 cutaway, and also a 107 needle jet. The bigger needle jet I ordered because for the moment the needle is in the highest position. I'm hoping I can lower it somewhat with a bigger jet. It may also help to get the mixture a bit more richer.
Am I thinking along the right lines here, or does anyone have some more (or different) ideas?
Thanks
'58 BSA A 10 SA
'52 BSA A 10 Plunger
'55 MORRIS ISIS
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Online chaterlea25

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Re: Bit of advise wanted
« Reply #1 on: 21.01. 2014 23:10 »
Hi Morris
Check the fuel height

HTH
John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Online muskrat

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Re: Bit of advise wanted
« Reply #2 on: 22.01. 2014 18:54 »
It sounds like fuel height for me too.
And using a 107 needle jet will also richen the slide cutaway area 1/8 to 1/4.
Does it have one of those new stay up floats?
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
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Online morris

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Re: Bit of advise wanted
« Reply #3 on: 24.01. 2014 22:21 »
Does it have one of those new stay up floats?
Cheers

Yes.
Going to check fuel height first thing
But I'm maybe facing another problem. Magneto....
I purchased a colortune, and when its in the right cylinder I see a very erratic and dull spark compared to the left which is much better (but also the left spark could be better according to my taste). Don't understand why yet. Slip ring problem?
First thought it was oil from the rocker box (had a bad leak there) which ran down the leads into the magneto. It was very oily in that area. Cleaned the slip ring, new slip ring brushes, new leads, still the same. Looks like I'll be spending the weekend in the shed again. (Can think of worse places though)
Always a bit troublesome this right cylinder, and I think I found out why now.
'58 BSA A 10 SA
'52 BSA A 10 Plunger
'55 MORRIS ISIS
The world looks better from a motorbike
Belgium

Online Triton Thrasher

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Re: Bit of advice wanted
« Reply #4 on: 25.01. 2014 10:19 »
If both HT sides produce a spark that will jump 1/4" in the open air at kicking rpm, that's probably a strong enough spark.

As for your messing about with the needle and needle jet size, that makes me suspect you have not followed the Amal tuning procedure, which says you sort out the main jet at full throttle, before the needle height.

Online morris

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Re: Bit of advise wanted
« Reply #5 on: 26.01. 2014 21:06 »
While doing a search on the forum, I came across an old post that said something like "if the carburettor gives you trouble look at the magneto, and if the magneto gives you trouble look at the carburettor"
Following that, I took the magneto apart, and found the slip ring to be a bit strange on the surface. It had a rough surface, and a hard deposit of what looked like carbon from the brushes. I gave it a light skim on the lathe, put it back together, and hey presto, got a working A 10 again *smile*

It did have a good spark both sides with the plugs out, but couldn't get it started with the plugs in. Pure by accident I forgot to put the plug cap from the right plug back on, and to my amazement it started, albeit on one cylinder. As soon as I put the cap on it stalled. That made me do a test in holding the lead against a bolt. As long as I kept it far enough so there was no spark, it kept running, but as soon as I made it spark, the engine stalled.
As you pointed out Triton Trasher in a post not so long ago that described more or less the same symptoms, a dirty slip ring can act strange

Anyway, problem solved thanks to this great forum *wink2*
BTW, went back to original carb settings, only left the richer slide in to see how it will behave on the road
'58 BSA A 10 SA
'52 BSA A 10 Plunger
'55 MORRIS ISIS
The world looks better from a motorbike
Belgium

Offline warmshed

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Re: Bit of advise wanted
« Reply #6 on: 04.02. 2014 13:20 »
Have you replaced the brushes recentlyu? I did and due to incorrect carbons it coated the slip rings and gave similar symptoms.

Online morris

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Re: Bit of advise wanted
« Reply #7 on: 04.02. 2014 17:16 »
Didn't replace them, but had an oil leak from the rocker box. The oil ran down the leads into the pickup brushes. The oil must have softened them I think.
Could also be the oil itself mixed with carbon dust wich burned on the slip ring.
'58 BSA A 10 SA
'52 BSA A 10 Plunger
'55 MORRIS ISIS
The world looks better from a motorbike
Belgium

Online groily

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Re: Bit of advise wanted
« Reply #8 on: 07.02. 2014 16:02 »
Just been through some of the same issues on mine Morris (late iron head, inch and an eighth) and some of the same to-ing and fro-ing between carburettor and ignition and back and forth.
It started with a rare and uncharacteristic extravagance - I bought a new 389 to replace the 1 1/16th 376 I'd been making do with (and running very happily on) for years. Bad Plan when something ain't broke  . . .
Well, would it run right? Exact same spec as yours, down to the last detail, and no it wouldn't - but the machine ran fine when I put the 376 back on (and off, and on, and off etc). Coughed and spluttered and generally was a pig to ride with the new carb. No good at no-load low revs (all spit and cough and flames), no good at mid range (hesitation, flat spots and spitting occasionally), only ran right on main jet sorts of openings, and was a dog to start hot. So I turned the slide down to reduce the cutaway, played with the needle height (and with pilot jets same as you - no difference) and eventually got it to run a lot better but with much too rich a slide. Far from spot-on though.
Thought it was at least OK for a decent blast, so took it for 100 miles last week. The last 30 miles were awkward 'limp home' miles as it got worse than ever and it was chucking it down with rain, of course, as it always is if you think you're about to grind to a halt.
Now the deterioration was odd, as carbs don't just have hissy fits like that. So having spluttered home - just - I did a quick and overdue check on the mag, and found a messy dose of constant winter muck and damp had made a mess of the contact breaker and, more serious, that the fixed point mounting block wasn't properly attached - the securing screw had backed off a bit. So I was getting irregular points gaps, varying between correct and near-zero. Good, I thought, that's that fixed then, maybe it's been the cause of other woe too, let's give it another go. But no, with the 389 it still wasn't as good as it should be. (But it was beautifully-mannered, again, with the old 376 shoved back on.)
So, following the advice of one of our savviest folk here - thanks a lot Brian! - I junked the brand new needle jet this afternoon, and put in one I've had for at least 35 years.
Total and utter transformation, and normal service resumed at a single stroke (well, with a bit of consequential fiddling with the pilot air and slow-running).
It's often said that some of the offerings in the new carb department are awful, but general consensus I thought was that the Amal/Burlen jobs do what they say on the tin. Not my experience with a new 928 concentric I was given for another project last year (which I ended up swapping for a 389 in the end to achieve another transformation), but I thought maybe I was just unlucky. Now I think I'll be recycling original carbs, of which I've got a small shelf-full, rather than try any more of this new stuff.
Cheers, Bill
Bill

Online chaterlea25

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Re: Bit of advise wanted
« Reply #9 on: 07.02. 2014 17:46 »
HI All
Bill,
I have had much the same experiences with "new" carbs
The "W" brand copies I would not touch again, I had to refit one with original AMAL jets *sad2*
They are selling so called "AMAL" jets that are junk  *eek*
I could not get a T140 to run on the needle jets from them

I have made a couple of gauge pins to check the needle jet sizes and old ones for wear

Regards
John


1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Online morris

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Re: Bit of advise wanted
« Reply #10 on: 07.02. 2014 18:22 »
Mmmm... Makes you think doesn't it?
When I got the SA, it came with a 376, but never ran properly with it, so I changed it for a new 386.
Had some difficulties at first, but without changing anything significant it gradually became better after a couple of 100 miles up to a point where it became a first kick starter, hot or cold. Made me wonder if a new carb needs a "running in" period?
On the other hand, I could never get rid of the flat spot when opening the throttle to quick from idle.
It's still doing it inspite of the 1/2 size richer slide which I got in for the moment.
So still tinkering with it....
'58 BSA A 10 SA
'52 BSA A 10 Plunger
'55 MORRIS ISIS
The world looks better from a motorbike
Belgium