Frame number

[Tone]

Hi, Could someone please tell me exactly where the frame number on a 1958 a10 is? Can't find it!

[trevinoz]

Should be on the front of the headstock stamped vertically.

Trev.

[rowan.bradley]

I can't find it there. Where exactly should it be? Here's a photo of the left hand side, where I've seen other A10 frame numbers stamped, but there is no trace of a number on mine. Where should I look next?

Thanks - Rowan

[JulianS]

Rowan - You will have to carefully check the whole frame. If its not on the wrap around plate the frame is probably a replacement one and could be stamped anywhere, or could be unstamped.

This frame is the 1961 pattern.

[rowan.bradley]

Thanks for this.

>This frame is the 1961 pattern

What is different about the "1961 pattern" frame?

So this is definitely not a 1958 frame?

It has a frame number in the log book (FA7-1388), but if this is a replacement frame, presumably the logbook number refers to the original frame?

If the frame does not have a frame number stamped on it, is that going to give me problems when I want to re-register the bike? It sounds like they want to check the actual number stamped on the frame to verify the age of the bike...

Thanks - Rowan

[JulianS]

Differences - the full wrap around headstock support as your photo for 61 - the rear brake cable anchor points straight back for lever pointing up 58, 1960 on points more downwards for lever pointing down  - the centre stand spring on the right for 58. Sure there are more.

First photo shows headstock support pre 1961 frames.

Second photo is a factory replacement universal type frame showing both cable stops - top stop for up to 1959 - bottom stop for 1960 on.

Last photo is a very poor copy of the factory Parts Service bulletin introducing the factory replacement frame. They would have been made to the latest pattern, you do see some of them with 4 front engine mounting lugs.

Sorry dont have a photo of spring anchors.

[bikerbob]

If your frame does not have a frame number then yes this will cause problems when you try to reregister the bike everything revolves around the frame number for identification, the engine is not so important. Back in the day when a bike needed a new frame or new crankcases then the dealer who supplied the replacements were supposed to stamp them with the original numbers. You have a log book with a frame number and it could be the number that should have gone onto your replacement frame but how do you prove that, there could be another frame out there with that number so I don,t think it would be advisable to stamp that frame with that number otherwise you could have 2 frames with the same number. The DVLA would not look kindly on you if that was to happen. I think your only course of action is to ring the DVLA and seek their advice but I very much doubt if they will tell you if that frame number is already being used. Sadly it looks as though you may be heading for a Q plate as even for an age related registration you need a frame number on the bike. I remember a few years ago I was considering buying a Norton it had a frame number but no engine number and no paperwork I rang the DVLA at the time and they said that as long as it had a genuine frame number it could be registered the engine was not important.

[Greybeard]

Is there a chance of finding reg details of a scrapped bike? Anyone here with a registration, (Log Book) for a similar machine that no longer exists?

[KiwiGF]

Hi, Could someone please tell me exactly where the frame number on a 1958 a10 is? Can't find it!

I suggest you remove the paint where it might be. Sometimes stamps can be quite shallow and hence accidentally covered up by paint, sometimes of course they also are shallow and/or illegible because someone sanded or ground them so they DID'NT show through paint  ......I've just registered one of those in nz and was quite nervous about the number being pretty illegible but, in the end, no one was that bothered. The number (sequence) bit was reasonably clear, but not the ZB31 bit.

If my bike had been stolen at some point in its life it was over 35 years ago as that's how long the PO had it.

I'm afraid in nz we are not so careful about frame numbers, if there was a frame without a number here, I've been emphatically told it would get one put on! There is normally no one involved in the re registering process who would want to query the originality of a frame stamping even if they had the skill to recognise a forged one.

Also if dealers were supposed to restamp frames, did BSA issue them with the correct factory stamps? Or did they use whatever stamps they had in the workshop? Or are the stamps (eg font) readily available even nowadays?

I know this is a contentious subject but I reckon we all want the bikes back on the road.....conversely we don't want bikes to be "mis represented" (eg made into an RGS, or a Goldie)

[Butch (cb)]

If there is no number then stamp the frame to match the V5.

[Topdad]

I'm with CB on this , if you've bought in good faith and been provided with an old V5 surely would be reasonable to assume that the old frame was damaged and replaced with the later frame at that time and the dealer didn't restamp it .

[rowan.bradley]

Thanks very much JulianS for those pictures. Mine has the two cable stops, see my picture (sorry the frame is not cleaned up yet like yours  ). So this means that it is a factory replacement frame supplied some time after 1960? And maybe it never had a frame stamp? If there is no frame stamp that I can find, what are the implications for registering the bike (under its original registration number, SJF612) in UK? Would it help, or hinder, if I stamped it with the frame number in the log book (which is the old style RF60)? DVLA must surely have come across this situation many times before, and have a way of handling it?

Many thanks - Rowan

[JulianS]

To retain an old number you need to establish a documentary link between the registration number and the frame number. No frame number then no link.

This takes you toDVLA website;

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/old-vehicles

[beesa71]

RB,

Does the engine number in your machine match that as stated on the old book?

Also, there is a methodology to add your number (old book) to the frame. Especially as JS confirms you have a replacement frame.

Paul.

[Topdad]

rowan, remember that you will be dealing with a Govt dept , they are like water and electricity in that they will wont to take the easiest route .... for them  ie Issue a "Q" plate, you have to make it crystal for them . There is a chap in a mthly mag who helps retain old numbers ,someone on here must know which one  and i'm sure he as helped just with a log book .
Would the BSAOC be able to provide any help ?