Author Topic: Frame number  (Read 2554 times)

Offline BSA_54A10

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Re: Frame number
« Reply #30 on: 11.11. 2017 04:53 »
I'd avoid the VMCC if I was you. Apart from the cost (something like £75) they want to know the ins and outs of a rat's a*se; pics of hubs, forks, gearbox etc, and then they act like they're doing you a real big favour by even replying to you.
BSAOC would be better.
Oh yes.....the inspector the DVLA sends isn't just looking for a frame number which corresponds with that in the old log book, s/he also checks that it's been stamped at Armoury Lane way back when.
New or wrong stamps, fonts, positioning will set all the alarm bells ringing.

So if they are all in a strait line , stamped to an even depth , true to the frame & in the same typeface they get called suspicious.  *smile*
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Offline rowan.bradley

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Re: Frame number
« Reply #31 on: 11.11. 2017 10:20 »
If, as someone said earlier, BSA did not issue stamps to dealers, then I would imagine there was no standardisation between dealers on what sort of stamps to use, what font, what size, where to put the stamp etc. Therefore it seems to me that these dealer stamped factory replacement frames must have had all sorts of different stamps, if indeed they were stamped at all. So almost anything ought to be acceptable.

And how would an inspector tell whether a stamp was done recently or back in the 1960s? Especially if the frame has been repainted after stamping?

Maybe a letter height of exactly some number of mm would be a give-away? But 8mm is very close to 5/16" (only .0025" different) so I don't think this will give the game away. Where would one get stamps with heights measured in inches? USA presumably.

Thanks - Rowan

Thanks - Rowan


Current bike: 1958 A10 Super Rocket (in bits), purchased in 1967.
Previous bikes: M21

Online KiwiGF

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Re: Frame number
« Reply #32 on: 11.11. 2017 12:11 »
If, as someone said earlier, BSA did not issue stamps to dealers, then I would imagine there was no standardisation between dealers on what sort of stamps to use, what font, what size, where to put the stamp etc. Therefore it seems to me that these dealer stamped factory replacement frames must have had all sorts of different stamps, if indeed they were stamped at all. So almost anything ought to be acceptable.

And how would an inspector tell whether a stamp was done recently or back in the 1960s? Especially if the frame has been repainted after stamping?

Maybe a letter height of exactly some number of mm would be a give-away? But 8mm is very close to 5/16" (only .0025" different) so I don't think this will give the game away. Where would one get stamps with heights measured in inches? USA presumably.

Thanks - Rowan

Thanks - Rowan

I doubt anyone will get out the tape measure! Well not in NZ anyway. Punches are cheap... if it was really required for an expert to decide if your frame was "right" would they not then know, about the stamping of replacement frames etc?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/0-9-NUMBER-A-Z-ALPHABET-LETTER-Metal-Stamp-Punch-set-Tool-Die-Marker-wood-Craft/322364432038?hash=item4b0e6adea6:m:mULL6yNBl9VB7_QSuaCaH2A


New Zealand

1956 A10 Golden Flash (1st finished project)

1949 B31 rigid “400cc hot rod” (2nd finished project, + favourite bike)

1949 C11 rigid, but why!!! (cos it was cheap)

1937 B21, project missing parts, mission impossible?

GL1800 Goldwing, well, the wife likes it

KTM 950 ADV, cos it’s 100% nuts

1952 Armstrong Siddeley Whitley for rainy days (with wife

Offline BSA_54A10

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Re: Frame number
« Reply #33 on: 12.11. 2017 13:24 »
And don't forget that bikes made at different factories had different stamps.
The Bantams made at the Redditch works have a smaller type and a different type face as to those assembled at Small Heath or for that matter the Shipley works.
Gold Stars have different  type & size to std B series engines as the numbers were stamped on by the competition department, not the production line .
Then you got the situation where the model number was stamped on before assembly ( DA 7 ) then the serial part - 12345 got stamped  either on the line or at despatch and again done by different people and may times with different types of stamps.
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Offline A10 JWO

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Re: Frame number
« Reply #34 on: 12.11. 2017 17:13 »
I would be tempted to buy a second hand frame with V5 and bite the bullet . Sell whats left over on ebay, you may end up quids in. Just do everything in good faith.

Offline cyclobutch

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Re: Frame number
« Reply #35 on: 13.11. 2017 13:28 »
I must be missing something here, and if so then sincerest apologies. But, my reading;

We have a frame with no number at all. We have a V5 for the kind of bike the frame comes from.
The frame is possibly a replacement, which the shop could/should have stamped with whatever stamps they had at the time.

So you can stamp the frame to match the V5 with whatever you want, as the shop would/could have done.

You have the V5 in your name. DVLA need never, ever make any inspection.
The bike does not require an MOT so the test station will not be looking at it either.

So who do we think is going to look at these stampings this side of hell freezing over? 
Various, including ...
'58 Iron Head Flash Bitza


Online JulianS

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Re: Frame number
« Reply #36 on: 13.11. 2017 13:39 »
The earlier post says there is an old log book RF60 it does not mention a V5C.

There have been cases where vehicles with V5 and which have not been taxed for some time to be subject of inspection.

Offline rowan.bradley

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Re: Frame number
« Reply #37 on: 13.11. 2017 14:36 »
Yes, I have the old RF60, but no V5. the bike has not been taxed since 1973 which was before the V5 was introduced. So as far as DVLA is concerned, it is (as I understand it) unregistered.

I too think it would be extremely difficult for anyone to tell the difference between a frame number stamped by an unknown (and who knows how competent) dealer in 1970-something, and one stamped very recently, especially if the frame has been repainted since. The system is (it seems to me) very open to abuse, and if someone wanted to stamp bogus numbers on frames, whether 40 years ago or now, it would be very difficult to stop them or to find out.

Thanks - Rowan


Current bike: 1958 A10 Super Rocket (in bits), purchased in 1967.
Previous bikes: M21

Offline Rex

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Re: Frame number
« Reply #38 on: 13.11. 2017 15:03 »
So stamp away and have done with it. You may be lucky in that the person sent to inspect the bike (and there will be an inspection) can't tell the difference, but then if you get a jobsworth who suspects the stampings are relatively recent be prepared for problems ahead.
Ultimately it's your choice.

Online edboy

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Re: Frame number
« Reply #39 on: 13.11. 2017 20:08 »
some bikes in the 70 ,s were overstamped by dvla at their old stations. now all gone. and a new v5 issued. i had such a bike stated " assembled from parts" and i dont think it was that uncommon. and it wasnt q plated either. as they closed down all the dvla stations to save money the dvla have no experts left but are happy to say no to everything. the owners club is the only way forward. try a local branch where i m sure someone could help you.

Online morris

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Re: Frame number
« Reply #40 on: 13.11. 2017 20:46 »
Shouldn’t DVLA be able to tell you if the frame number you have on your RF60 is currently registered?
If it’s not registered then it shouldn’t be any problem if you restamp yours.
Legally it’s just required that there’s only one frame existing with that particular number ergo size and type of the stamps don’t really matter
Or am I a bit naive here?   :!
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Offline cyclobutch

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Re: Frame number
« Reply #41 on: 14.11. 2017 08:45 »
Ha - I'm at the wrong end of the stick as usual then.

I'm surprised you folks haven't either excommunicated me or at least set me to 'read only' by now.


 
Various, including ...
'58 Iron Head Flash Bitza


Offline rowan.bradley

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Re: Frame number
« Reply #42 on: 14.11. 2017 11:56 »
I wrote to the BSAOC and they gave me somewhat different advice to what has appeared in this thread. What they said is:

Quote
Factory replacement frames were often not stamped by dealers.You'll apply to retain the registration number in the normal way but the DVLA will issue a frame number from their own system. This you will need to stamp or have stamped on the frame
and verified/witnessed by an authority such a MOT station or possibly club official.To retain a number,you supply the dating officer with the following items in a registered/recorded delivery postage:

1.Forms v55/5 & V765 filled in as necessary (notes on the BSA website regarding this)
2.Original log book (this will be returned to you by the officer)
3.Pencil rubbings of frame & engine number.(obviously just engine no. in this case)
4.Fee Cheque for £25 payable to BSA OC Library A/c
5.Photos of the complete machine from both sides.Endorse on rear of both:
   'I certify this is true likeness of BSA A10 reg no***   frame no (not known)   engine no.***
    Sign & date both.

Include a note to the dating officer,to state there's no frame number stamping on account of the frame possibly being a
factory replacement.Send all of this evidence to:

Dating Officer,BSA OC.,113 Holmville Road,Bebington,Wirral CH63 2PX

The officer will forward this submitted evidence to the DVLA for their consideration and they will either accept this with a DVLA frame number to be stamped or reject it.It's their decision.

Does anyone have any experience of this process?

Thanks - Rowan


Current bike: 1958 A10 Super Rocket (in bits), purchased in 1967.
Previous bikes: M21

Offline coater87

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Re: Frame number
« Reply #43 on: 14.11. 2017 14:18 »
 I am usually completely against re-stamping of any numbers on anything.

 But what I see here:

 You own the bike, its not stolen.

 You are not trying to make a RGS out of something else.

 Your not trying to cheat anyone.

 This was something that should have been done to the frame 50 years ago, and was neglected to be done by no fault of your own. If the same numbers we are talking about now would have been stamped 50 years ago, we would not be having this conversation.

 By going the "bureaucrat" route, and contacting this agency, and that agency, and hoping things will work out in your favor is a fools errand. If thats what you plan to do, STOP sticking money into this project right now and save your money, because it may not work out the way you want.

 Or get some 1/4 inch stamps, drink a few beers and swing the hammer. Hit the restamped numbers with a sander to smooth and age them, and paint the whole works. Be done with this.

 Lee
Central Wisconsin in the U.S.

Offline chaterlea25

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Re: Frame number
« Reply #44 on: 14.11. 2017 17:39 »
Hi All,
Lets hope the DVLA are not reading this thread  *warn* *problem* *angry* *pull hair out*
I was told that there was a special dolly that fitted inside the wrapround plate to prevent it denting inwards when the numbers were punched into it ?
Faked number frames can often be seen with the plate dented

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)