Author Topic: A10 Engine Noise?  (Read 1910 times)

Offline FoxDK

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Posts: 42
  • Karma: 0
A10 Engine Noise?
« on: 26.03. 2014 19:17 »

Hallo!  *smile*

After taking My A10 Golden Flash out from winter sleep, and changed the oil, I think that the engine makes a "new" noise.

The valve clearance is checked and OK. The new oil I filled on, is Catrol Classic 20W/50.

I seem to remember, that it made ​​this noise a little last year, but not as much as now (the video exaggerates a little). What can be the problem? Is this something I should worry about?

I'm only able to hear the noise a low rpm's and with warm engine.

See video of the noise:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5unZcS9S6U


Regards from Denmark,

Frederik

Offline Flatboy 1950

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Posts: 110
  • Karma: 1
    • Flat Earth Spares
Re: A10 Engine Noise?
« Reply #1 on: 26.03. 2014 19:35 »
Sounds like a tight primary chain.

Online morris

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 1564
  • Karma: 23
  • Antwerp, Belgium
Re: A10 Engine Noise?
« Reply #2 on: 26.03. 2014 21:43 »
Dynamo chain to loose?
I remember my swingarm making a similar noise before converting to belt drive.
'58 BSA A 10 SA
'52 BSA A 10 Plunger
'55 MORRIS ISIS
The world looks better from a motorbike
Belgium

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 8165
  • Karma: 106
  • Lake Conjola NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: A10 Engine Noise?
« Reply #3 on: 27.03. 2014 08:55 »
I'll go with the dynamo chain as well.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline FoxDK

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Posts: 42
  • Karma: 0
Re: A10 Engine Noise?
« Reply #4 on: 27.03. 2014 14:39 »
Hallo,


Thank You for the answers  *smiley4*

The dynamo chain is checked and OK.

If the primary chain is to tight, hos do I check this? How tight should it be?


Regards Frederik



Online Billybream

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2012
  • Posts: 514
  • Karma: 5
Re: A10 Engine Noise?
« Reply #5 on: 27.03. 2014 15:11 »
Hi.
To check the primary chain, there is an inspection cover (cap) on the primary chain cover, this is the cover for the clutch.
The primary chain is correctly adjusted when it has 1/2" (approx. 12mm) total up and down movement in the centre of the chain span and at its tightest point. If the chain needs adjustment, this is achieved by pivoting the gearbox about its lower support bolt. The procedure is fully covered by most of the service books and leaflets.
Sounds to me like it is the Dynamo chain hitting the casing somewhere. For how long it takes you could remove the chain and rerun without to see if noise disappears.
1960 Super Rocket, owned since 1966, back on the road 2012 after being laid up for 29yrs.

Offline FoxDK

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Posts: 42
  • Karma: 0
Re: A10 Engine Noise?
« Reply #6 on: 28.03. 2014 14:12 »

Hallo,

Thank You. The primary chain's tension is checked and OK.

I have now tried to start the engine without the dynamo chain, unfortunately without any improvement. For me to hear, the sound is coming from the cylinder head. Can it be the valve rocking system that are worn?

The engine is running great, but I'm worried about doing any damage to it, by driving it.

Regards from Denmark,

Frederik


Online RichardL

  • Outside Chicago, IL
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2007
  • Posts: 4997
  • Karma: 48
Re: A10 Engine Noise?
« Reply #7 on: 28.03. 2014 15:59 »
Frederik:

Here is a video that I forwarded to SRM to ask for help identifying the noise (I had bought a lot of parts from them). They told me not to run the engine again before tear down. It turned out to be a thrown rod bearing, due, I'm certain, to the fact that I knew nothing about the sludge trap and failed to clean it after the bike sat 24 years leading to the rebuild. I am not saying that you have the same issue, because it's hard to tell, exactly. It does seem like it could be valve noise, but if you eliminate that possibility, then, who knows? Have you listened to the various areas on the engine using a probe, like a long steel rod  between your ear and the various points?

https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&feature=vm&video_id=T9grUuIEzM0

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2017 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDE on September 30, 2018. Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 8165
  • Karma: 106
  • Lake Conjola NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: A10 Engine Noise?
« Reply #8 on: 28.03. 2014 19:02 »
G'day Fred. A few things to check. Does the noise change if the adv/retard is moved at all? Can you hear anything winding over by hand with the plugs out? ( You may hear a click clack at the same piston height each revolution. This is backlash in the timing gears, most do it.) Re check tappets and when doing so check for sideways movement of the rockers (indicating worn or broken thrust spring).
A compression test cold and hot, first check as is then add a ml or two of oil down the plug hole and try again. No increase in pressure = good rings, may be bad valve. Increase in pressure = bad rings.
Your pipes are a little too blue for my liking, timing may be a bit retarded or lean mixture.
The noise may also be your paranoia LOL.
Cheers 
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline FoxDK

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Posts: 42
  • Karma: 0
Re: A10 Engine Noise?
« Reply #9 on: 30.03. 2014 19:28 »

Hallo,

Yes, I listened to the various areas on the engine by using a screwdriver. For me to hear, the sound is coming from the cylinder head.

The noise does not change when I'm moving the the ignition timing point. There is no sideways movement og the rockers. I do not have the equipment for compression test  *sad2*

The valves are adjustet the right gap. But will they still be able to make a sound like this?

Maybe it's a worn rod bearing. Is there anyway to check this, with out separation of the engine?  *smile*

A completely different quistion. How do I remove this gear for the dynamo chain?



Offline Greybeard

  • Jack of all trades; master of none.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 5916
  • Karma: 32
Re: A10 Engine Noise?
« Reply #10 on: 30.03. 2014 20:04 »
Frederik,
I had a strange engine noise on my bike, (plunger A10) soon after the restoration. The sound appeared to be high up. I was freaked out and very worried but someone here suggested checking that the petrol tank mountings were properly tightened. I tightened the bolts and the noise went away. The tank was nearly empty so I guess it was vibrating in sympathy with the engine and acting like a sound-box. I hope your worrying noise is as harmless as mine.

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 8165
  • Karma: 106
  • Lake Conjola NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: A10 Engine Noise?
« Reply #11 on: 30.03. 2014 20:32 »
G'day Fred.
The only other thing up there that could make a noise when warm/hot is a loose valve guide.
The iron head motors are usually quieter than the alloys, even with their bigger tappet clearances. They will make a little noise.
The dynamo drive sprocket is on a taper and quite often difficult to remove. A puller and heat normally does it but if not it will come off with the inner timing cover.(bugga, another gasket) A lot easier and safer to apply force on the bench.
Tip = rotate crank to top of stroke BEFORE removing the cover as the idler gear will come away too and will need to be synced with the timing marks before the cover is replaced.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Online bsa-bill

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 5413
  • Karma: 61
Re: A10 Engine Noise?
« Reply #12 on: 30.03. 2014 20:37 »
Quote
How do I remove this gear for the dynamo chain?

Slacken the nut a little, just enough to create a gap of  an 1/8th or so  (but the nut must cover the end threads of the pinion), get a pry bar or a something with a bend at the end, slip it behind the sprocket and apply pressure to the rear of the sprocket, then strike the end of the nut with a soft hammer ( soft as in hide or plastic).
It should spring off if not  you may need a puller
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline duTch

  • Ricketty Rocketty Golden Flashback
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 4540
  • Karma: 41
Re: A10 Engine Noise?
« Reply #13 on: 31.03. 2014 03:36 »

 I do like bill says, but use flat bar as well with one either side to spread the point loading, and be careful not to 'tap' too hard, the case isn't real thick, but should be fine under normal circumstance...!
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline FoxDK

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Posts: 42
  • Karma: 0
Re: A10 Engine Noise?
« Reply #14 on: 02.04. 2014 21:35 »
Hallo Graybeard. Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm sorry. The noise does not come from a loose petrol tank, the noise comes from the engine  *conf*

I'm a bit stuck with finding where the noise is coming from. So I have to live with it so far.

The noise does not get worse and video exaggerating a bit with the noise. So for now I will continue running the bike, until I can get an expert to look at it.

Thank You duTch and Bill, I will carefully try the pry bar.  *smile*