Author Topic: I know/think something is wrong.  (Read 1923 times)

Online Angus

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I know/think something is wrong.
« on: 06.04. 2014 14:27 »
Having done 70+ miles on the A10 a couple of weeks ago and it not miss a beat, I went to start it yesterday and all seamed very tight//almost locking up  *sad2*.

So panic set it and possibly my over active imagination  (Its called catastrophizing ). I pulled in the clutch and tried kicking it still appeared locked, but after a few attempts it started to slip and free. Let clutch out still tight and bounced me off the kick start a couple of times.
With the clutch in appeared to be a sort of grindy tinny noise.
So open Gearbox inspection cover and seams like no oil so fill that up (probably took ½ pint).
Open the primary chain inspection cover and the big clutch spring adjustor screw and checked to see is anything is loose as best I can and for oil level (home made dip stick) all seams OK primary possibly a bit tight but not touched that since last summer so should not tighten up.
Finally cross figures and decide to give it another go and she kicks over, then starts all seams fine, but I am still worried (catastrophizing) is that a new noise from the primary side a sort of whistling chirruping noise.
Did not take her out but she warmed up fine all gears appear to select and back wheel goes around.
I really really don’t want to start pulling her apart as I have a project (Matchless G80) in millions of bits.
But should I  *dunno* ?
1961 A7 since 1976
1960 A10 Gold Flash Super Profile Bike
1958 Matchless G80 Project
1952 Norton Model 7 Plunger
1950 T100

Online Triton Thrasher

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Re: I know/think something is wrong.
« Reply #1 on: 06.04. 2014 16:36 »
I can't tell from your post, whether you ran the gearbox dry of oil or not.

Online Angus

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Re: I know/think something is wrong.
« Reply #2 on: 06.04. 2014 17:53 »
Hi Triton
It was possibly dry or nearly as it took approx half a pint of oil (should have measured it when filling  *problem*) to bring it up to level.
1961 A7 since 1976
1960 A10 Gold Flash Super Profile Bike
1958 Matchless G80 Project
1952 Norton Model 7 Plunger
1950 T100

Online RichardL

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Re: I know/think something is wrong.
« Reply #3 on: 06.04. 2014 18:39 »
Angus,

I don't know what you mean by "big clutch spring adjusting screw."

Definitely check for proper slack in primary chain.

If you already know this please don't take offense by my stating the obvious, but there is a fill-level screw in the side of the gearbox. With this removed, you need not measure-out gearbox oil. just wait for it to seep out of the hole, then close it back up.

Richard L.

Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2020 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDEon September 27, 2020. This year it's a solo or pillion ride in dapper attire. Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.


Offline morris

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Re: I know/think something is wrong.
« Reply #4 on: 06.04. 2014 18:52 »
Gearbox contains 1 pint so if you added 1/2 pint to fill her up it should still have contained enough oil for the gears to throw around and lubrify the box.
According to your description however it appears to me that the main shaft and final gear bush may have seized.
I would at least get box and/or primary cover off to check if the mainshaft still turns freely.
Good luck!
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Offline bsa-bill

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Re: I know/think something is wrong.
« Reply #5 on: 06.04. 2014 19:05 »
Hi Triton
Think maybe the first thing to establish is if we are talking about the same thing, I'm wondering about where you regard the correct level
do you mean the level up to the level plug on the rear of the gearbox as in the following pics, If so - fine but if not let us know
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline muskrat

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Re: I know/think something is wrong.
« Reply #6 on: 06.04. 2014 20:37 »
G'day Angus.
Does the clutch "free" with the kick lever? "free" = pull clutch lever in and use kick lever, should not turn motor over. I'm thinking loose clutch center nut. Would take the primary cover off to investigate.
Just sweep the matchy stuff to a corner.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Online RichardL

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Re: I know/think something is wrong.
« Reply #7 on: 06.04. 2014 21:07 »
By the way, Angus, I may have misread your meaning. Perhaps you were saying that it took a half-pint to flow out of the fill-level hole.

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2020 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDEon September 27, 2020. This year it's a solo or pillion ride in dapper attire. Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.


Online Angus

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Re: I know/think something is wrong.
« Reply #8 on: 06.04. 2014 22:17 »
Hi All

Thanks for the input so far.

Richard L, Thanks I do know about the level plug on the gearbox (and the primary). I have not tended to use them as they have been a source of leaks. Thus I make up dip sticks. I did not measure what I put in I was estimating as I just filled it to the level on my dip stick (which may not get to the bottom of the gear box).
Oh and ‘big clutch spring adjusting screw’ See below

Morris, that was my worry although is appears to select all gear fine and turn the back wheel on the centre stand.

Musky The clutch did free when pulled in but not straight away. If it had a loose centre would I not be able to move/wobble the outer cog with my finders though the inspection/oil filler hole.

Does anyone think I should just give her a little run around the block just half a mile or so, she has as I have said been very good with only two small problems, sticky slid (only at full throttle) and misfire at higher revs.

1961 A7 since 1976
1960 A10 Gold Flash Super Profile Bike
1958 Matchless G80 Project
1952 Norton Model 7 Plunger
1950 T100

Online Angus

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Re: I know/think something is wrong.
« Reply #9 on: 08.04. 2014 19:40 »
Well I started her again, and took her around the block. Luckily no sign of the problem. Pretty sure now it was not the gear box. I am also fairly sure that there is a new noise from the primary as described before as sort of  whistling chirruping noise at the front. I think I will pull the primary but don't want to get into anything major as my son loves riding her and it is getting to the riding season. Thanks for the help and advise. Sorry If I have ignored it.
1961 A7 since 1976
1960 A10 Gold Flash Super Profile Bike
1958 Matchless G80 Project
1952 Norton Model 7 Plunger
1950 T100

Online Angus

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Re: I know/think something is wrong.
« Reply #10 on: 09.04. 2014 12:00 »
Well I should not have ignored advice. Went to start her this morning beautiful day so quick trip to the shops. Locked solid.
I was worried that it would take some time to take to primary off as although did rebuild the A7 in the late 70’s, its been a while (thus the matchless a bike without any personal history to get back into working on bikes).
Anyway less the 30 minutes and, well the cush drive nut was attempting to exit through the primary cover. Thank god I did not persist.
Now to search for torque setting as I seam to recall it needs to be tight.
1961 A7 since 1976
1960 A10 Gold Flash Super Profile Bike
1958 Matchless G80 Project
1952 Norton Model 7 Plunger
1950 T100

Offline Topdad

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Re: I know/think something is wrong.
« Reply #11 on: 09.04. 2014 12:06 »
Could have been a lot lot worse Angus . Can't help with torgue figures think I've seen 65ft/lb but wait til someone more knowledgeable confirms .With mine I just did it until I could fit the splitpin which was a real effort. be back together before you know it, regards Bob
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Offline KiwiGF

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Re: I know/think something is wrong.
« Reply #12 on: 09.04. 2014 12:25 »
The nut should have a lock washer but its quite tricky to bend over the tab by getting a punch to it through the spring, and also be sure it is locating properly on the splines, I use loctite on the threads in case the washer does not do its job, as well as the washer, and do the nut up as tight as I can using a hammer and punch. There is a pattern nut available which has a hex so a torque wrench can be used if you have one of them. 70 ft lbs rings a bell but I cannot remember where I read that.

Loctite does a very good job on larger threads like this one, as always degreasing the thread first is a must, I use brake clean to degrease the nut and crank before applying the loctite.

Ive neve quite figured out what the split pin does, I just use wire but maybe its just a last resort to stop major damage as the nut has to have come loose and screwed out before it hits the split pin/wire  *dunno*

Most cases show evidence of the cush drive nut coming loose so its commonplace!
New Zealand

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1968 B44 Victor Special (3rd finished project)
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Offline a10gf

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Re: I know/think something is wrong.
« Reply #13 on: 09.04. 2014 12:57 »
wow  *eek* , you were very right with the topic title.
Glad it was discovered in time. And as always, a reminder of attention to details.

Quote
I just use wire
noooo :O)

I got an ample collection of fresh, solid pins (see attach.), and I do not reuse old ones (never know if\when they could break). Always trying to think a little towards airplane security standards when working on (potentially dangerous or destructive) stuff. Friends laugh at me sometimes, but become very serious when phoning for help and bring tools or to pick up their bike with my van.

Good luck Angus, that problem won't happen again.

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"Success only gets you a ticket to a much more difficult task"

Online RichardL

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Re: I know/think something is wrong.
« Reply #14 on: 09.04. 2014 14:03 »
65 ft.-lb. is the torque recommended by SRM for their hex-drive cush nut. I don't believe you can fit a cotter pin with that nut, as it is not dished-in for that purpose, while an original nut is.

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2020 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDEon September 27, 2020. This year it's a solo or pillion ride in dapper attire. Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.