Clutch not disengaging

[Angus]

Ok Me again, the A10 just does not appear to like being ridden, its ok when its out but when it gets home it breaks.
Anyway 70 miles since Cush drive fixed and after a 40 mile trip came home and then had a quick look at hot starting problem cleaning Mag etc.
Anyway my son went to test it and upon returning the clutch would not disengage, stopped it played with it but even when disengaged lots of drag and a nasty noise from primary case.
The clutch has never been a problem in my ownership and the limited 600 miles we has done.
So pulled it apart again and the inner drum seams to be binding on something quite stiff to turn the outer drum runs free and smooth and there appear to be no play anywhere.
So the question how do you get the inner drum off nothing to pull with or leaver against. I was thinking of making a piece of metal with 2 holes and using it with the clutch adjuster nut and bolts to pull it off against the centre nut.
Picture of clutch below the pressure plate has Lyford Classic services stamped on it all looks quite new.

[Billybream]

Hi Angus.
The clutch centre requires an extractor, the male thread on the extractor srcews into clutch centre thread and a centre bolt screws down onto the end of the layshaft, the clutch centre is on a taper with key.
See link with covers removal in detail. http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=5166.msg47992#msg47992
If you decide to buy an extractor make sure the TPI is correct.

[morris]

Hi Angus,
Your best bet would indeed be a clutch extractor. They are sold by nearly every parts dealer.
Just make sure to have the right TPI. Before using it, take out the bolt, and grind it down a bit to get a smooth surface so you won't damage the gearbox shaft.
When tightening the extractor bolt, just don't be to heavy handed. When it gets tough, don't force it. Give the bolt a tap with a hammer, and tighten the bolt again. If that doesn't work it loose, leave the tension on for an hour or so, and try again. Taper shafts can be very stubborn.

What was the state of the clutch plates? If they where very oily, this already may be the cause of them sticking.

The fact that the inner drum turns rough is a bit worrying, because this may point towards a gearbox problem. Could that have been the noise you heard?

[Angus]

Thanks for both your replies, but I am not struggling with getting the clutch centre off ( I have a puller for the 6 spring clutch that was on the A7 that I have used in the past), but the inner drum is on very tight onto the clutch centre and will not budge. Thus my idea for using a piece of metal with two holes to use the clutch adjuster bolts and nuts to pull the inner drum off the centre, don't want to damage anything so thought I would check here first.

I don't think it is gearbox as the whole lots outer and inner drum run smooth turning the gearbox shaft, its only if you hold the inner drum and try to spin the outer drum that it has obvious tight spots.

[morris]

Ok I see.
Wouldn't use the clutch bolts though. The heads are a bit thin to resist the force
I've once pulled a stubborn clutch off by using the extractor, but with a 10'' long bolt screwed in with a weight on it like a slidehammer. Worked well
Concerning the slight drag, could be the outer drum touching slightly on the inner. I had the same issue. Solved it by giving the surface a light skim on the lathe.

[Billybream]

Sorry Angus, barking up the wrong tree.
The clutch inner drum is on a spine, could be corrosion, try alittle heat, normally easy to just pull off.

[morris]

I think I understand what you mean now. The outer and inner drum can be pulled off together if you like. You'll need a big bearing puller to get behind the outer drum. Just put a recipient underneath because the rollers will drop out if you do so.

[RichardL]

My story here is about the inner hub not running freely (not the problem of removing it, but maybe they're related).

When assembling my 6-spring clutch a few weeks ago, I noticed that the chain wheel rotated freely until I tightened the large outer nut that holds down the inner basket. After a few rounds of tightening and loosening I was really scratching my head. It suddenly dawned on me that the basket must be rubbing against the chain wheel (duh!), but how? Looking at the backside of the basket I noticed some very small scratches toward the inside on a couple of the swedges that secure the basket studs. Then, I looked inside the chain wheel and there is a slightly raised shoulder outside the bearing race. Measuring the diameter between scratches on the swedges versus the diameter of the shoulder answered the question. The swedges were, indeed, making contact with the shoulder upon tightening. This was a brand new UK-made basket. I compared the swedges to those on my old Asian-made basket and, sure enough, the swedges were smaller on the Asian version. A quick attack on six swedges with my Dremel fixed the problem.

The point of this story, I think, is to look really close at all the relationships of fit.

Richard L.

[Angus]

Dam or I was lucky then. Drove me mad as I could do this with the old 6 spring clutch. So at 3am got up and made up two pieces of metal with holes for the clutch adjuster nuts and bolts (so using all 4 bolts) did the screws up half a turn each working around and off it came easily. So sorry Morris, but as said luckily no damage done.
With it off the outer drum still had tight points when spun around but again it would not just pull of so not worn appreciably, eventually at 4:30 am I went back and spun the outer drum around whilst pulling and it all cam apart.
Checked and cleaned everything this morning no sign of wear or damage, 20 rollers checked the measurements against another post on here they are OK.
It was working fine for 599 miles, just wondering if any debris from the cush drive grinding into the case (see recent post) could have clogged it.
I think later today I will put the clutch back together with a little grease or oil on the bearing and see what its like,

[RichardL]

"...and I made it back to bed before the wife knew I was up all night messing around."

[Angus]

Right tried a clean and reassembly and that failed. There is defiantly something with the 20 roller bearing. Put it on outer basket insert rollers with some oil and spin it seams fine but some rollers move out, so put inner basket on and seams fine at first and then a tight bit comes back spin in reverse and frees for a bit then tightens again.
Thought I had read somewhere that is could be tight with all 20 rollers so tried it with 19 same result. It does the same with the inner basket off manually holding the rollers in.  There is no play, the outer basket takes ages to get of its such a good fit, you have to spin and pull and spin and pull and it slowly eases off, it all looks quite new but before i bought it.
Please note this is a sudden failure it has been a really nice clutch no drag, light and easy neutral for 600 miles, I even rode it half an hour before this happened there where no early symptoms.
Not sure what to do now any other ideas


ps just checked bills clutch purchased from lyford classics in 2007, the mileage on the mot that year was 47108 so the clutch has done less then 900 miles total.

[chaterlea25]

Hi Angus,
Presumably since the clutch was working ok the rollers are the correct length? .225in (6mm or near)
Not 1/4 x 1/4in.
The other possibility is that the clutch shaft adaptor has expanded due to tightening on the taper
There are a lot of crap adaptors floating about 
Have you accesss to accurate measuring equipment to measure the components?

HTH
John

[Angus]

Hi John thanks for the reply real struggling with this one.
Measuring equipment, I only have a vernier gauge.
I have checked the rollers and they are 5.5mm in length, they appear a flush fit against the back of the clutch centre and the front lip of the outer cage, they don’t appear to be recessed or protrude.
Could the shaft adaptor expand like that under use, its different from any I have seen before no thread for an extractor at the front and space behind then a scroll behind on the shaft. I think I have seen one like this mentioned on the forum at some point.
One of my friends says I may be being overly critical as it does not jam just gets tighter when turning by hand a bit like a brake rubbing on a bicycle but not every revolution, seams to turn a number of time then tighten then loosen off again.
Just concerned that if I put it back together is could lock tighter under use like it did prior to strip down.

Angus

[chaterlea25]

Hi Angus,

Could the shaft adaptor expand like that under use

Yes!!!
If they didnt bother to put a thread for an extractor did they bother to heat treat it??
Try a fine file on the metal edge and see how hard it is??

John

[morris]

Shaft adaptor flange slightly distorted? There's not much tolerance between the back of the outer drum and the flange.
That's the spot I had to rectify on my clutch. I could notice it was definitely out of true when I put it on the lathe.