Author Topic: New rebuild 1963 A10  (Read 3208 times)

Offline magicflem

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New rebuild 1963 A10
« on: 08.08. 2014 08:55 »
I am sure this question must have been raised before, somewhere - but I can't find it!!
Just finished an engine rebuild on my 1963 A10 RGS, there is a head gasket leak on the primary side and a spray of oil from the breather under the bike.
Would the spray of oil and overheating all be related to the leaking head gasket - could gases leak thru the gasket and into the case via the push rod tunnel?
Would a retension of the head gasket (haven't done this yet) solve the problem?
Help!!!
Regards,
Kim 
1930 BSA B30-3 Side Valve Girder (being restored)
1955 BSA A10 Road Rocket
1955 BSA A10 Golden Flash
1956 BSA A10 Road Rocket
1951 BSA A10 Golden Flash
1956 BSA DB32 Gold Star Clubman
1958 BSA A10 Super Rocket
1961 BSA C15 (being restored)
1961 BSA C15 Star "America" (being restored)
1961 BSA A10 "Big Valve" Super Rocket (being restored)
1963 BSA A10 Rocket Gold Star

Offline muskrat

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Re: New rebuild 1963 A10
« Reply #1 on: 08.08. 2014 09:59 »
g'day Kim.
Was it a composite or solid head gasket? Was it annealed properly?
If can leak into the tunnel and would pressurize the case but so would blow by the rings if their not bed in yet.
A proper re-torque of the head (rockerbox off) is only 5 minutes away from lifting the head to try a new annealed gasket.
You could re-torque the four outside bolts, but it's something I wouldn't make a habit of.
Cheers 
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline magicflem

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Re: New rebuild 1963 A10
« Reply #2 on: 08.08. 2014 10:30 »
Ahhhh, beautiful Lake Conjola.....
Thanks Musky, I did cherry the solid copper gasket on the BBQ wok burner. Hopefully a re-tension will solve the problem.
What do you suggest lbs for bolts?
Also, do you run in hard or otherwise?
Regards,
Kim 
1930 BSA B30-3 Side Valve Girder (being restored)
1955 BSA A10 Road Rocket
1955 BSA A10 Golden Flash
1956 BSA A10 Road Rocket
1951 BSA A10 Golden Flash
1956 BSA DB32 Gold Star Clubman
1958 BSA A10 Super Rocket
1961 BSA C15 (being restored)
1961 BSA C15 Star "America" (being restored)
1961 BSA A10 "Big Valve" Super Rocket (being restored)
1963 BSA A10 Rocket Gold Star

Offline a10gf

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Re: New rebuild 1963 A10
« Reply #3 on: 08.08. 2014 12:01 »
Hello, try a search for head torque, lots of info available, for both alu and iron.
And remember how the different search options works > http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=1352.0

A10 GF '53 My A10 website
"Success only gets you a ticket to a much more difficult task"

Offline RichardL

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Re: New rebuild 1963 A10
« Reply #4 on: 08.08. 2014 13:08 »
Kim,

Is there any possibility that your annealing method brought some area of the gasket to partial melting and, theferfore, surface deformation? If re-torquing the exposed four bolts does it, count yourself lucky, but I suspect a new gasket or, at least, re-annealing will be called for.  Have you done a compression test? Maybe both sides are leaking. Before and after tests could tell you if the re-torquing did the trick.

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2017 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDE on September 30, 2018. Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Offline muskrat

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Re: New rebuild 1963 A10
« Reply #5 on: 08.08. 2014 13:40 »
30Ft/Lb with oiled bolts. (I give my cafe 35)
I don't baby mine, keep under 4000rpm for 1st hundred miles and don't lug it up hills.
How many miles since rebuild?
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline magicflem

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Re: New rebuild 1963 A10
« Reply #6 on: 08.08. 2014 23:45 »
Only 20 odd miles since rebuild - I will re-tension head and see how we go.
I will let you know if this is a fix.
Thanks all.
Kim
1930 BSA B30-3 Side Valve Girder (being restored)
1955 BSA A10 Road Rocket
1955 BSA A10 Golden Flash
1956 BSA A10 Road Rocket
1951 BSA A10 Golden Flash
1956 BSA DB32 Gold Star Clubman
1958 BSA A10 Super Rocket
1961 BSA C15 (being restored)
1961 BSA C15 Star "America" (being restored)
1961 BSA A10 "Big Valve" Super Rocket (being restored)
1963 BSA A10 Rocket Gold Star

Offline trevinoz

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Re: New rebuild 1963 A10
« Reply #7 on: 09.08. 2014 00:33 »
Kim,
            Did you check the head and barrel faces for flatness?
The head can tend to get a bit of a warp.

Trev.

Offline magicflem

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Re: New rebuild 1963 A10
« Reply #8 on: 09.08. 2014 05:12 »
Checked all head bolts this morning - no movement from 30 ft lbs as originally set when the head went on during rebuild.
Will now have to take head off and fit new solid copper gasket.
This is the way I intend to go:
1. Anneal head gasket with "Mapp" Gas to cherry red then immediately quench in cold water.
2. Clean gasket with "Brilo" sponge.
3. Clean all surfaces with "Prepsol".
4. Check head for warp - what is the best way of checking?
5. Coat both sides of gasket with "Permatex Copper Spray-A-Gasket Hi Temp Adhesive" just before fixing in place.
6. Fix gasket, head, thick washers and "wasted" bolts.
7. Torque to 20 ft lbs then 25 ft lbs then final 30 ft lbs. Then leave overnight, tap each bolt head with brass drift then check ft lbs again.     
Is there anything wrong with my method?
Kim
1930 BSA B30-3 Side Valve Girder (being restored)
1955 BSA A10 Road Rocket
1955 BSA A10 Golden Flash
1956 BSA A10 Road Rocket
1951 BSA A10 Golden Flash
1956 BSA DB32 Gold Star Clubman
1958 BSA A10 Super Rocket
1961 BSA C15 (being restored)
1961 BSA C15 Star "America" (being restored)
1961 BSA A10 "Big Valve" Super Rocket (being restored)
1963 BSA A10 Rocket Gold Star

Offline muskrat

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Re: New rebuild 1963 A10
« Reply #9 on: 09.08. 2014 05:56 »
Sounds just as I would do it. Fingers crossed.
To check for flatness chalk the surfaces and rub them together. look for shiny spots.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline magicflem

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Re: New rebuild 1963 A10
« Reply #10 on: 09.08. 2014 07:15 »
Just took the head off and guess what a found.....
The timing side barrel sleeve has dropped 2.77mm!!! not happy #$@$%@^#$$$$
How the hell can engineers get it so wrong?
Has any body had this happen before and would it be part of my head gasket problem?
Kim
1930 BSA B30-3 Side Valve Girder (being restored)
1955 BSA A10 Road Rocket
1955 BSA A10 Golden Flash
1956 BSA A10 Road Rocket
1951 BSA A10 Golden Flash
1956 BSA DB32 Gold Star Clubman
1958 BSA A10 Super Rocket
1961 BSA C15 (being restored)
1961 BSA C15 Star "America" (being restored)
1961 BSA A10 "Big Valve" Super Rocket (being restored)
1963 BSA A10 Rocket Gold Star

Offline muskrat

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Re: New rebuild 1963 A10
« Reply #11 on: 09.08. 2014 07:41 »
BUGGA *eek*.
If your really care full you could push it back in and use a really small scotch key in the top to hold it or two small pins at the bottom of the skirt (chamfered on the inside to be flush with the bore).
Or. Get a new one made 0.002" bigger on the OD. Pray the other one stays put.
Wish it was just a head gasket.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline duTch

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Re: New rebuild 1963 A10
« Reply #12 on: 09.08. 2014 08:36 »

 geez mate, that's a total bitch agree the gasket would've been preferred...

 Regarding the:-
Quote
6. Fix gasket, head, thick washers and "wasted" bolts.

 The bolts won't be 'wasted' unless you don't use them, it's usually best to use 'waisted' bolts in the head..!
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline magicflem

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Re: New rebuild 1963 A10
« Reply #13 on: 09.08. 2014 09:11 »
Thanks guys....
Looks like the sleeve just touched the crank but lucky no damage to it or my new con rods.
It will be a trip to my regular engineers at Winsor on Monday with barrel, head and pistons.
I will have them replace both sleeves just to be sure.
The old sleeves will end up with the bloke who originally put them in - he may look a little funny with them inserted where they shouldn't be inserted!!
Kim
1930 BSA B30-3 Side Valve Girder (being restored)
1955 BSA A10 Road Rocket
1955 BSA A10 Golden Flash
1956 BSA A10 Road Rocket
1951 BSA A10 Golden Flash
1956 BSA DB32 Gold Star Clubman
1958 BSA A10 Super Rocket
1961 BSA C15 (being restored)
1961 BSA C15 Star "America" (being restored)
1961 BSA A10 "Big Valve" Super Rocket (being restored)
1963 BSA A10 Rocket Gold Star

Offline muskrat

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Re: New rebuild 1963 A10
« Reply #14 on: 09.08. 2014 20:36 »
The last set I had done had a small step at the bottom of the skirt for the sleeve to but against so it couldn't drop.
Are you buying proper sleeves or having foreign ones machined?
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS now A10CR,  '83 CB1100F, 88 FXST .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7