Author Topic: Hydraulicking on an A10  (Read 2010 times)

Offline Nigeyp

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Hydraulicking on an A10
« on: 28.08. 2014 15:14 »
Hi I have owned my A10RR 1956 for a number of years. After an oil change and priming the oil pump (checking for oil with PRV removed, continued to crank case filter and checed return valve free. Kicked over bike until oil returning at the oil tank.
Started and ran for a few seconds with oil still returning. Tried to kick again and pistons solid.
The engine did not even idle so a friend suggested hydraulicking as the source of the problem. Any suggestions how to verify this and how  to remedy this?
The PRV have caused this problem.

This bike has always started on 2nd or 3rd Kick!

NigeyP 56 Road Rocket with HHC engine and 12v conversion.

Th

Offline unclerob

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Re: Hydraulicking on an A10
« Reply #1 on: 28.08. 2014 16:21 »
Hi Nigel, guessing you mean hydraulic locking? Generally that's where a liquid is sucked into the combustion chamber stopping the piston from moving upward....I'm thinking your friend is suggesting the reverse....oil in the crankcase/barrels stopping the piston moving downwards?Not very likely I'd have thought....it would take a lot of oil!  I can't think of any other kind of hydraulic locking...
Have you taken the sump plate off to look....or the plugs?
Might it be something more simple....kickstart gear jammed for instance?

Offline duTch

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Re: Hydraulicking on an A10
« Reply #2 on: 28.08. 2014 17:21 »

 
Quote
Might it be something more simple....kickstart gear jammed for instance?

 My first thought too...!
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
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Offline a10gf

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Re: Hydraulicking on an A10
« Reply #3 on: 28.08. 2014 17:45 »
Yes, check the 'other' possibilities before taking the engine apart, maybe (remove the plugs and) put it into gear and push the bike and see what happens.

About the 'hydraulic locking' (IMO not very realistic that would happen but would be quite interesting if it was the case), if the combustion chambers were full of something, remove the plugs and have a look, for the crank try draining the sump and see if some vast amount of oil comes out.

And welcome to the forum, as always, intro post in Bikes & Members appreciated.

A10 GF '53 My A10 website
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Offline Topdad

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Re: Hydraulicking on an A10
« Reply #4 on: 29.08. 2014 10:13 »
Can't see the sump being filled so much as to cause that , when I and alot of others have forgotten to drain the sump my oil is dumped via the chaincase to the ground very neat built in feature by BSA or as I tend to call it my " aid memoir ",others refer to it as proof positive of advancing dementia! BobH.
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Offline Nigeyp

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Re: Hydraulicking on an A10
« Reply #5 on: 29.08. 2014 15:37 »
Thanks one and all for the info- so here is the update, - sump was drained and very little oil (as oil circulation had been working), plugs removed and pistons at the bottom of the barrels, and unable to shift the kick start.
I have also removed the carb and cleaned it thoroughly.

Upon the pistons "seizing" my initial response was to pour oil down the barrels to lube them and prevent further possible damage n(now I have to remove the excess oil by suction or wait for it to drain to the sump!

I am unable  to move the bike in 2nd gear, but clutch is fine and  when kicked in 2nd  the back wheel turns.  I am too weak from kicking and rocking it in 2nd gear any further suggestions appreciated, before the head and barrels are removed.

After a few days efforts I have bruising and cuts to legs, and aches and pains all over (and a wife unimpressed by SAE40 spills), so tomorrow the battle will re-commence!)

Offline a10gf

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Re: Hydraulicking on an A10
« Reply #6 on: 29.08. 2014 15:50 »
It's some progress, by elimination of the enigmatic Hydraulicking and the gearbox\kick\clutch. Seems a careful dismantling and inspection is the way to go.

Quote
After a few days efforts I have bruising and cuts to legs, and aches and pains all over (and a wife unimpressed by SAE40 spills), so tomorrow the battle will re-commence!)

lol++ tales from the great real world of vintage motorcycling!

A10 GF '53 My A10 website
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Offline unclerob

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Re: Hydraulicking on an A10
« Reply #7 on: 29.08. 2014 15:58 »
That doesn't sound so good Nigel!
I'd be tempted to loosen the barrel nuts a little and see what happens when you try to kick it then....
I have the same knee problems....nowadays I have a rule....if it doesn't go within 3 kicks it gets put back in the garage in disgrace and I use a bike with one of those nice sensible buttons on the bars instead....

Offline Nigeyp

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Re: Hydraulicking on an A10
« Reply #8 on: 29.08. 2014 16:45 »


The locking up has happened twice before and I had to kick the crap out of it free the pistons- but no sooner than the engine fired and ran it was back to seizing again.
It makes no sense that it did turn over by hand with no problems, and the compression was good.
I was worried about oil starvation, and hence the rush to lubricate the barrels to avoid scoring-  I will try loosening the barrels a smidgen.

If not then its off with the head and barrels for a complete winter overhaul!


Offline duTch

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Re: Hydraulicking on an A10
« Reply #9 on: 29.08. 2014 18:30 »

 Probably rocking in top(4th) gear might work better...?

 sounds a strange one..maybe something come adrift in the primary...or even the dynamo chain..?
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline Nigeyp

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Re: Hydraulicking on an A10
« Reply #10 on: 29.08. 2014 20:44 »
 *????* Please tell me the sump studs could be the problem, I have the modified SRM cover with plug and longer studs!!!! *conf*

Offline duTch

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Re: Hydraulicking on an A10
« Reply #11 on: 29.08. 2014 23:23 »

 Someone can tell you that, but don't think it's the case (no pun intended), fairly sure my sump studs are in blind holes..only way is take 'em out and have a looksee

 Did you by any chance change the primary case screws at all.?? Longer ones in the front/inner can jam the crank, but you'd hear it  *ex*
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Online BSA_54A10

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Re: Hydraulicking on an A10
« Reply #12 on: 30.08. 2014 09:18 »
Nope, the sump studs are open holes which go directly through the crank case.
This is why they are studs and not bolts.
Now it is possible for the studs to go up far enough to contact the flywheels but thay would have to be really long.
Bike Beesa
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Offline muskrat

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Re: Hydraulicking on an A10
« Reply #13 on: 30.08. 2014 21:42 »
G'day Nigeyp  *welcome*.
It all sounds very strange it just happened after an oil change, but might just be coincidence. At first I thought it was the kicker jamming, will it free the clutch? [with clutch pulled in the kick lever should go through the stroke and not turn the motor but will turn the wheel if it's in gear]
I'd at least drop the primary cover and try turning the motor at the crank nut.
Cheers
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Online bsa-bill

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Re: Hydraulicking on an A10
« Reply #14 on: 30.08. 2014 21:54 »
Quote
I have the modified SRM cover with plug and longer stud


When you installed the cover did you make sure the gauze was positioned such that the oil return pick up could protrude through the hole in the gauze.
just thinking if it was sitting on top of the gauze oil return might be restricted and/or the pickup pipe might be bent up to foul the crank or fractured (again not helping oil return)
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco