Author Topic: Primary Chain Case  (Read 3014 times)

Offline a101960

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2007
  • Posts: 1031
  • Karma: 11
  • BSA RGS BSA C12
Primary Chain Case
« on: 22.02. 2009 16:17 »
Does anyone know if the primary chain case cover retaining screw below the front sprocket goes right through the cover (inner) casting and into the crank case. It certainly seems to on my bike. It is possible to push a rod down the hole to a depth that exceeds the length of the screw by a considerable margin. I am guessing that this part of the circular steel plate fixing set up, is this correct?

I also have a supplementary question. When an Altette horn is fitted to the frame on the left hand side engine bolt, does the supply cable run down the front frame tube or is it routed under the petrol tank and then under the engine and gearbox?

Online bsa-bill

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 5328
  • Karma: 61
Re: Primary Chain Case
« Reply #1 on: 22.02. 2009 17:11 »
yes it goes right through, I think all three front screws do the same they are larger than the rest I'm sure you know that.

Sorry can't help with the horn

All the best - Bill
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline LJ.

  • Peterborough UK.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2006
  • Posts: 1403
  • Karma: 15
  • The Red A10!
    • LJ's Website!
Re: Primary Chain Case
« Reply #2 on: 22.02. 2009 19:02 »
Yes I agree with Bill... The bolts go right through. But beware!! If your putting new bolts in, be sure they are not too long or they will foul the crankshaft when it rotates. I have even found mixing the three up can lead to one just touching the crank.

Also... If your engine wet sumps badly and these screws are out... your oil will fill to the screw holes level and pour out making a nice mess for you to clear up. Dont ask me how I know this...  *smile* *smile*

Horn wiring... Cant really help either unless I go out to a cold shed....

Cheers!
LJ.
Ride Safely Lads! LJ.
**********************
1940 BSA M20 500cc Girder/Rigid- (SOLD)
1947 BSA M21 600cc Girder/Rigid-Green
1949 BSA A7   500cc Girder/Plunger Star Twin-(SOLD)
1953 BSA B33  500cc Teles/Plunger-Maroon
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Blue
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Red

Offline trevinoz

  • Newcastle, N.S.W. Australia.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2006
  • Posts: 2838
  • Karma: 66
Re: Primary Chain Case
« Reply #3 on: 22.02. 2009 21:16 »
The Altette wiring runs down the downtube as does the generator wiring.
If you didn't know, the swinging arm horn bracket is cranked, not straight and the Altette is the crinkle tone disc type.
  Trev.

Offline a101960

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2007
  • Posts: 1031
  • Karma: 11
  • BSA RGS BSA C12
Re: Primary Chain Case
« Reply #4 on: 23.02. 2009 14:11 »
Thank you all for your replies. I was curious about why the oil kept on dribbling out of the hole. The Altette horn bracket that I have is straight, but it seems to fit without any problems. Has anybody got an opinion about the advantages or not of replacing the primary cover screws with a set of Allen head bolts. I am bit worried about them rounding off, but that is all that seems to be available in stainless steel. I am not sure if this is due to the keys being soft or the bolts, but they do seem to be prone to this problem. The cover screws that I removed should ideally be replaced because some of the slots are quite worn and distorted. And one final question. The primary cover oil filler cap does not want to come undone. Does anyone have any tips on how to get it moving? Normally, or so I am told the opposite is the case. The cap is prone to spinning off when riding the bike.

Online bsa-bill

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 5328
  • Karma: 61
Re: Primary Chain Case
« Reply #5 on: 23.02. 2009 16:53 »
Hi a101960
original cheese head screws in stainless are available in sets in the UK (don't know where you are).
Think I got mine from Lyford Classics or maybe Lightening spares although this is a few years ago.
I'm using the allen screw type on my current rebiuld. they should'nt need to be that tight that they cause problems removing them.
I used cheese head on my last biuld as it's sometimes in shows.

All the best - Bill
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Online BSA_54A10

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 1866
  • Karma: 31
    • BSA National
Re: Primary Chain Case
« Reply #6 on: 25.02. 2009 10:21 »
If you are thinking of using allen head bolts it is imperative that you fit flat washers behind the heads.
You used to be able to get extra thick washers ( often called "high tensile" ) but they don't seem to be making them any more.
Two washers are better than one and the bigger the diameter the better.
I have seen a lot of cases totally stuffed because the allen bolts have collapsed the holes so deeply that by the time they are counter bored flat again there will be insufficient metal left to support the clamping load required to maintain an oil tight joint.
bike Beesa
Trevor
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Online RichardL

  • Outside Chicago, IL
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2007
  • Posts: 4927
  • Karma: 46
Re: Primary Chain Case
« Reply #7 on: 25.02. 2009 11:52 »
Trevor,

Am I correct that the point you are making about the allen-head bolts has to do with the ability to overtighten them, versus using a screwdriver on the cheese heads? Else, does it have to do with area of contact or head shape (both full flat on bottom, are they not?)?

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2017 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDE on September 30, 2018. Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Offline a101960

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2007
  • Posts: 1031
  • Karma: 11
  • BSA RGS BSA C12
Re: Primary Chain Case
« Reply #8 on: 25.02. 2009 13:23 »
I have a preference for fitting cheese head screws. I work work as an aircraft electrician and in the course of my work repairing  aircraft generators (amongst other things) I have not been impressed with the performance of Allen head bolts. When Allen head bolts are torqued up it is fairly routine for them to round off. This causes huge problems the next time that the generator requires disassembly. Luckily the heads are exposed so access is good from the point of view of using methods other than the key to release them. I realise that the torque required on an A10 chain case will not be the same, but it still causes me concern. The problem that I have is in locating a source that sells the cheese head screws as a set. There are numerous suppliers offering Allen head sets. I dare say that it might be possible to purchase cheese head screws individually, but even if I supply a list of part numbers problems could arise due mistakes and misinterpretations. Buying parts for old BSA's is fraught with problems. Recently I ordered a pair of chromed rear mudguard stays. Not only was the plating and polishing rubbish, but they also did not fit. The dealer refunded my money without question, however, and here is the rub. That same dealer is still offering that same product for sale. It is a minefield  when trying to source serviceable parts. This why I am testing the water now and doing a bit of research to try and avoid any more problems.

Online orabanda

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2008
  • Posts: 967
  • Karma: 20
Re: Primary Chain Case
« Reply #9 on: 25.02. 2009 13:44 »
Andy Molnar can supply stainless cheese head screws for the A10.

http://www.manx.co.uk/

Richard

Offline a101960

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2007
  • Posts: 1031
  • Karma: 11
  • BSA RGS BSA C12
Re: Primary Chain Case
« Reply #10 on: 25.02. 2009 14:06 »
Richard thank you for the information I will order a set today.

Online RichardL

  • Outside Chicago, IL
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2007
  • Posts: 4927
  • Karma: 46
Re: Primary Chain Case
« Reply #11 on: 25.02. 2009 14:41 »
Molnar does offer an excellent selection, however, I had a very unpleasant exchange of emails with an impatient and rude woman who appeared to be running the stainless hardware sales department. I have since avoided buying from them, but that's just me. Others might get on just fine and should check it out for themselves. For example, try asking what the entire cost of your order is including shipping (as in to US or OZ) without being told to "p*ss or get off the pot!" The subsequent exchange of emails was amazing and left me and my local friends with jaws dropped over the complete lack of business civility.

In case you are wondering why I am talking openly about this negative experience but have resisted in the past with regard to my sloppy machinist, it is because the latter did try to make some amends, which was not the case when communicating with the Molnar woman.
End-o-Rant.

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2017 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDE on September 30, 2018. Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Offline a101960

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2007
  • Posts: 1031
  • Karma: 11
  • BSA RGS BSA C12
Re: Primary Chain Case
« Reply #12 on: 25.02. 2009 15:17 »
Richard L
For the record I had a similar experience with a well known exhaust pipe supplier. I ordered a set of stainless steel siamesed pipes. Not only did they not fit properly the radius was such that I could not fit the cooling ring onto the left hand side. Not only that, there was an unsightly kink in the bend. When I contacted the supplier to  point this out, his response was equally amazing. Basically what he said to me was that he had been making exhaust pipes for many years and that he was not going to be lectured by people like me (customers) on how to make exhaust systems, and what is more, by selling his products he was doing me a favour! Like I said it is a minefield. How these people stay in business I really don't know.

Offline Lannis

  • Moving Up
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 90
  • Karma: 0
Re: Primary Chain Case
« Reply #13 on: 25.02. 2009 15:29 »
How these people stay in business I really don't know.

Some of them DON'T stay in business.  When their business fails, they blame it on:

1) The poor economy
2) Government policies
3) Chinese imports
4) Cheap immigrant labor.

They never seem to consider that their own kick-the-customer-in-the-idiot attitude MIGHT be contributing to the fall off in business. 

Lannis
1961 A10 Golden Flash
1969 A65 Firebird Scrambler
1955 M21 Commodore
1935 Matchless Model X Project
1990 Moto Guzzi California III
1983 Moto Guzzi 1000SP
1986 Yamaha TT225 trail bike
1966 Morgan 4/4

Online bsa-bill

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 5328
  • Karma: 61
Re: Primary Chain Case
« Reply #14 on: 25.02. 2009 17:16 »
I had a very unpleasant exchange of emails with an impatient and rude woman

Me too
Some years ago, but it seemed that I should not been ordering stuff over the phone I should have sent an order in on an order form, just where I was suppossed to get this form from remains a mystery ( being as this was my first order ).
Apart from one item the stuff was good, the item that was not good was a rear wheel spindle nut, it was tight when trying to screw it up ( it was lubricated ).
Should have sent it back and risked the wrath of Molnar woman however I had an idea it would turn up with the aid of an air tool - Whoa big mistake.

All the best - Bill
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco