Author Topic: Clutch parts confusion...  (Read 2878 times)

Offline Johnny J

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Clutch parts confusion...
« on: 14.01. 2015 17:16 »
I am changing the clutch bearing, seal and sliding plate on my GF-1960 with 6-spring clutch and I have problems understanding which parts are which.

If I look at the picture "Clutch parts", No: 11, 12 or 13 cannot be found on my bike (if they are not further inward...).
As I understand it, 11 and 12 are only on Plunger models? but 13, "65-3833" Collar, Clutch Sleeve (Reverse scroll?) seems to be missing.

My supplier also suggested I should buy the cork gasket in the picture (which I did), this has number "66-3090", do I need this?



   Gothenburg, Sweden

Online bikerbob

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Re: Clutch parts confusion...
« Reply #1 on: 14.01. 2015 19:53 »
Your drawing covers all models but there are differences items 11/12 are not for the A series swinging arm but item 13 is the reverse scroll that fits on the end of the clutch center piece you  can buy these seperately and are a tight fit on the clutch center.

Offline Johnny J

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Re: Clutch parts confusion...
« Reply #2 on: 15.01. 2015 23:51 »
A thought, what do you think about putting silicone sealant between the inner primary and the chainguard(?) to prevent oil leaks?
Will it be an obstacle in any way, except when you want to remove the inner primary? It should be quite easy to cut through it at that time.
Only problem I could think about is if there is a reason to remove the chainguard and it's possible to do that without removing the clutch...
   Gothenburg, Sweden

Offline Johnny J

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Re: Clutch parts confusion...
« Reply #3 on: 16.01. 2015 17:44 »
Don't think I need to do the above, after fitting the reverse scroll to the center it seems like a tight enough construction.
No wonder that it leaked alot before when there was no scroll, a totally open way out....
   Gothenburg, Sweden

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Re: Clutch parts confusion...
« Reply #4 on: 16.01. 2015 19:37 »
I don't think that silicone sealant is a good idea, for a start you would have to have the fully enclosed  chaincase front section fitted. Secondly and more importantly what is to stop the oil if it gets past the reverse scroll from going inside that section of chaincase and causing further problems.

Offline Johnny J

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Re: Clutch parts confusion...
« Reply #5 on: 16.01. 2015 20:15 »
No, I didn't seal it.

Another problem came up when I started to put things together, there was alot of play in the clutch bearing so I bought new cages with balls.
After mounting them there is no difference.
The obvious would be that the races are worn, but I couldn't see or feel the slightest wear on the outer race so I thought it were the balls that were worn. (no pun intended) :-)
This leaves the inner race, but I don't find it likely that there is so much wear on this and nothing on the outer?

Any ideas?

Here's a link to a video of the play: http://youtu.be/wfWq131OGt8
   Gothenburg, Sweden

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Re: Clutch parts confusion...
« Reply #6 on: 16.01. 2015 21:31 »
Hi Johnny,
Is the inner race a good tight fit on the shaft adaptor?
The pattern ones that have been supplied in recent times are 15 thou loose on the adaptor *warn* *warn*
I posted about this previously on here, Some suppliers withdrew their stocks after I contacted them, another insisted it was my "fault" and still sell the crap ones *problem* *problem*

I got over the problem by finding an original BSA one
Other than that beware if you go and buy new races !!!

HTH
John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Offline Johnny J

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Re: Clutch parts confusion...
« Reply #7 on: 16.01. 2015 21:44 »
Thanks John, I will check this more carefully tomorrow.
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Re: Clutch parts confusion...
« Reply #8 on: 17.01. 2015 01:10 »
The amount of play in your video would not concern me, though its a bit large, the chainwheel can only wobble when the clutch is pulled in anyway, and the range of movement possible (by the plates having a small gap when pulled in) is probably lesss than in your video, the centre of the clutch bearing is clamped by the clutch nut so cannot spin so it can have a bit of clearance over the shaft I guess, albeit this could cause the chainwheel to be not concentric with the gearbox shaft so is not desirable!

The clutch bearing would have to be pretty tight to prevent wobble at tbe edge of the chainwheel after all....and even if like that when new I suspect a bit of wear would allow the wheel to wobble.

I have seen it said that the position of the outer race in the chainwheel is crucial to prevent clutch drag and maybe wobble, if the position is wrong it certainly can cause drag, and certainly if the position is adjusted so the chainwheel is pushed close to the backing pressure plate (behind the chainwheel) wobble can "appear" to be reduced anyway, but I have to say I am not 100% convinced the position is supposed to be used to adjust this ......but it might be worth checking it is correct, though I do not think the correct position is any manual I've seen........
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Offline Johnny J

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Re: Clutch parts confusion...
« Reply #9 on: 17.01. 2015 13:45 »
Hi Johnny,
Is the inner race a good tight fit on the shaft adaptor?
The pattern ones that have been supplied in recent times are 15 thou loose on the adaptor *warn* *warn*
I posted about this previously on here, Some suppliers withdrew their stocks after I contacted them, another insisted it was my "fault" and still sell the crap ones *problem* *problem*

I got over the problem by finding an original BSA one
Other than that beware if you go and buy new races !!!

HTH
John

John, yes you were right, guess a big part of the play is the inner race not sitting tight on the adaptor.
Question is, where do I find a proper inner race? Anyone bought one recently thats sits alright?
   Gothenburg, Sweden

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Re: Clutch parts confusion...
« Reply #10 on: 17.01. 2015 19:35 »
Hi Johnny,
Send an ebay message to this seller on Ebay, motor0921
http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEFSXS%3AMESOI&_ssn=motor0921&rt=nc

Sometimes he has NOS ones for sale

I have given up on 6 spring clutches   *problem* *problem* *problem*
Just too much hassle

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

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Re: Clutch parts confusion...
« Reply #11 on: 17.01. 2015 23:46 »
I may be wrong here, as I don't know this type of six spring clutch, but shouldn't the inner basket lock up the bearing's inner race so it can't move? In that case adding a shim might help.
Or if it's not that, maybe there's to much play between the inner and outer basket? I had an issue like that on the plunger's six spring clutch with an aftermarket inner basket. This clutch is of a different type though as on this one the back of the inner basket has a roller race which butts up against a thrust washer . I skimmed the race a couple of thou so the inner basket moved a little further on the shaft and this entirely eliminated the wobble.
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Offline Topdad

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Re: Clutch parts confusion...
« Reply #12 on: 18.01. 2015 12:01 »
Hi Morris, you are trying to apply logic to this part when unfortunately logic wasn't used by Bsa to design this piece of crap.I have owned 2 a10s with this clutch and the first one was changed to the later tri-bsa one after many months of trying to get it to work ,the second one went into the bin before it had a chance to send me round the bend. I admire anyone who gets these clutches working but I have to say I'd rather ride the bike than curse it when it breaks at the side of the road miles from home.
Johnny sorry to go off on one but if you ge the chance swop the clutch for the later one do it honestly you won't regret it best of luck what ever you decide ,Bobh
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Offline Johnny J

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Re: Clutch parts confusion...
« Reply #13 on: 18.01. 2015 13:57 »
I´ll consider that, the clutch plates have seen better days any how...
Any recommendations where to buy a 4-spring complete one?
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Re: Clutch parts confusion...
« Reply #14 on: 18.01. 2015 17:26 »
Agree with Bob there. the 4 spring is a far better clutch. I have one on the SA. Never any bother with it.
Most dealers do them. Here's an example;
http://www.degroot-bsa.nl/index.php?route=product/category&path=75_95&page=1
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