Author Topic: Slipping Kickstart.  (Read 5126 times)

Offline The_Beast

  • Active
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 9
  • Karma: 0
Slipping Kickstart.
« on: 11.03. 2009 17:00 »
Hi Everyone. My 58 Goldflash has started to "slip" when trying to kick start and won?t turn engine over. there is resistance there and does try to turn. i have had my clutch to pieces everything looks fine. The clutch its self is not slipping. Now. If i put in gear and apply the rear brake it does not slip, its solid, so in my mind this rules out kick start issues. Don?t want to strip gearbox if there is nothing wrong with it.  However I am often wrong and reside on a different planet to most. any help in diagnosing fault would be appreciated or if you have suffered same fault. Thanks

Offline Lannis

  • Moving Up
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 90
  • Karma: 0
Re: Slipping Kickstart.
« Reply #1 on: 11.03. 2009 17:30 »
I'm betting that it's the clutch, even though it doesn't appear to be slipping on the road.

It's amazing how a clutch will pull 600 pounds of motorcycle and rider down the road, but will slip when the engine is kicked over to start it, but it happens.

Usually, by the time a clutch is slipping on the kickstart, it's slipping on the road a bit too.  The best test is getting ready to head up a hill in third or fourth gear at 3000 RPM or so, and open the throttle right up.

There's nothing else between the kickstart lever and the crankshaft that can "slip".  Break, maybe, or jump several teeth, but not slip.

Lannis
1961 A10 Golden Flash
1969 A65 Firebird Scrambler
1955 M21 Commodore
1935 Matchless Model X Project
1990 Moto Guzzi California III
1983 Moto Guzzi 1000SP
1986 Yamaha TT225 trail bike
1966 Morgan 4/4

Online bsa-bill

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 5341
  • Karma: 61
Re: Slipping Kickstart.
« Reply #2 on: 11.03. 2009 18:37 »
Well there is also the cushdrive (nut turned off) I would think you might have noticed that.

All the best - Bill
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Offline LJ.

  • Peterborough UK.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2006
  • Posts: 1403
  • Karma: 15
  • The Red A10!
    • LJ's Website!
Re: Slipping Kickstart.
« Reply #3 on: 11.03. 2009 19:10 »
Lannis makes a good point... although my Blue A10 has been behaving in a similar fashion, slipping when kick starting, it has not been slipping out on the road. I guess the compression is very good and is acting as a resister to that first initial kick to zap it into life.
Ride Safely Lads! LJ.
**********************
1940 BSA M20 500cc Girder/Rigid- (SOLD)
1947 BSA M21 600cc Girder/Rigid-Green
1949 BSA A7   500cc Girder/Plunger Star Twin-(SOLD)
1953 BSA B33  500cc Teles/Plunger-Maroon
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Blue
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Red

Offline a10sausage

  • Moving Up
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 98
  • Karma: 0
  • 58 flash
Re: Slipping Kickstart.
« Reply #4 on: 11.03. 2009 20:04 »
hi beast...i wonder if it is the woodruff key on the end of the gearbox mainshaft that has sheared....the clutch centre locates on to this...if this has sheared it might be the cause....does anybody else suport this theory...it would be nice to know ...or am i barking up the wrong tree...ruff...ruff.
1959 bsa bantam d1
1956 ariel huntmaster
1922 triumph model h
1930 sunbeam model 8
1936 bsa q21 500 bluestar
1939 velocette mac
1975 honda cb750
2013 victory vegas

Offline The_Beast

  • Active
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 9
  • Karma: 0
Re: Slipping Kickstart.
« Reply #5 on: 12.03. 2009 10:57 »
Hi all. Thanks for your input but clutch is definitely not slipping, primary casing is off and i marked the clutch pressure plate against the drive side and no slippage at all. i am going to investigate the woodruff key on the end of the gearbox mainshaft. this theory fits all symptoms. will report on my findings.  thanks everyone.

Offline The_Beast

  • Active
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 9
  • Karma: 0
Re: Slipping Kickstart.
« Reply #6 on: 12.03. 2009 13:23 »
Hi everyone. Found the problem. the inner clutch drum has for reasons unknown has de-castellated and is now just round. please see photos. i suppose in a good bad way this is good as i am now going to modify to the later 4 spring clutch system. does any one know of a reputable seller of a complete 4 spring clutch kit. thanks for your help.

Online groily

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2007
  • Posts: 1049
  • Karma: 17
    • www.brightsparkmagnetos.com
Re: Slipping Kickstart.
« Reply #7 on: 12.03. 2009 17:44 »
Blimey . . . now that does count as wear . . . what's the shaft like!? Don't know where 4-spring clutches come from, but bet Draganfly can help . . .
Bill

Offline dpaddock

  • NC, USA
  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2006
  • Posts: 429
  • Karma: 5
Re: Slipping Kickstart.
« Reply #8 on: 12.03. 2009 19:36 »
Try C and D Autos: canddautos@eidosnet.co.uk
David
'57 Spitfire


Offline RichardL

  • Outside Chicago, IL
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2007
  • Posts: 4937
  • Karma: 46
Re: Slipping Kickstart.
« Reply #9 on: 12.03. 2009 19:41 »
Maybe, ask the very experienced here about their proper-running 6-spring clutches. I am not among the "very experienced," but my 6-spring seems to work fine. The idea of a $50 (36 GBP) clutch basket seems inviting versus maybe more than $200 for a 4-spring. OK, I'm bracing myself against a flurry of attacks for being thrifty, and hope that it is not seen as thrifty agaisnt reason.

Richard L.
Plan on signing up for the world-wide 2017 DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDE on September 30, 2018. Watch website at https://www.gentlemansride.com for details.

Offline olev

  • Brisbane, Australia
  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Posts: 476
  • Karma: 2
Re: Slipping Kickstart.
« Reply #10 on: 12.03. 2009 20:17 »
gday beastie,
if Orabanda has fitted all his A10's with Suzuki clutches in darkest Kalgoolie, they can't be that hard to fit.
and Phil Pearson in England likes screwing them onto gold stars.
just a thought?  cheers


http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/orabanda/Marioclutch2.jpg

Online BSA_54A10

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 1876
  • Karma: 31
    • BSA National
Re: Slipping Kickstart.
« Reply #11 on: 13.03. 2009 00:33 »
And if we are talking sacralage here a Yamaha SR , RD , XT or 400-600cc twins (cant remember their code) can all be made to fit as the entire clutch is rivited onto the drive gear which can be replaced with a sproket or just rivited inside your old drum.

As for 6 spring clutches, it will all depend on the orientation of the pressure plate to the rolling direction of the steel that it was pressed out of as to how much flex ( or variations of flex) there is and that is the difference between a beautiful clutch & an impossible to adjust bugger of a clutch.
Bike beesa
Trevor
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Offline zitman

  • Moving Up
  • **
  • Join Date: Feb 2009
  • Posts: 59
  • Karma: 0
Re: Slipping Kickstart.
« Reply #12 on: 13.03. 2009 12:23 »
The Beast:

I had all sorts of problems with the 6 spring clutch on my A7.  I have "upgraded" to a four spring conversion, It is excellent, after a little tweaking as the centre nut kept coming loose.

i tried for a few weeks to source a clutch centre for the 6 spring and was told everywhere to avoid the ones you can buy now as they are rubbish (C & D told me they refused to stock them as did Burton Bike Bits.  DragAnFly said they would sell me one but would rather not as I would probably return it).

I got the 4 spring conversion from George Prew but it was missing the spring cups, which I still haven't got 3 weeks later!

I have ridden bikes with a 6 spring clutch and they were fine.

Basically my view is if you can get a NOS 6 spring clutch centre and set the clutch up properly (I am told this is a bit of a black art) then great.  If not go the 4 spring route.

Z

Offline a10sausage

  • Moving Up
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 98
  • Karma: 0
  • 58 flash
Re: Slipping Kickstart.
« Reply #13 on: 13.03. 2009 17:20 »
the beast...throw that 6 spring clutch in a swamp and buy a 4 spring...or you will be banned from sausage and egg barmcakes for the rest of your life....aj *conf* *smiley4*
1959 bsa bantam d1
1956 ariel huntmaster
1922 triumph model h
1930 sunbeam model 8
1936 bsa q21 500 bluestar
1939 velocette mac
1975 honda cb750
2013 victory vegas

Offline The_Beast

  • Active
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 9
  • Karma: 0
Re: Slipping Kickstart.
« Reply #14 on: 13.03. 2009 19:01 »
A.J. You CANT ban me fom Sausage n Egg Barms

Hi Eveyone, After much sole searching and wallet searching i have decided to buy another six spring cente basket, to put me on for six months or so untill i can get the SRM 4 spring conversion kit. The idea of a Japanese Clutch is tempting but i would like to keep it Brittish, a  last resort maybe
 
  Thanks to eveyone for your help