A10 engine number - odd stamping?

[CrispinA10]

Running in my lovely RGS replica and all is going beautifully, so no technical questions as yet, but wonder if anyone can help with A10 engine stampings. I understand that my bike was built using a Super Rocket, but am still trying to track down the bloke who put it together somewhere near Halifax, UK. The engine bears the number DA10 R 10029 but below this in a larger font is K N O W.
Does anyone know what that stands for? I assume it is not a factory stamp. Does the R signify Rocket rather than Super Rocket?

[chaterlea25]

Hi,
The DA10 and the "1" may be original, the rest is a figment of the stampers efforts 

John

[CrispinA10]

Blimey. Does that mean the number is completely made up, or tweaked to look like something that it isn't? I'll have a look at the frame next, and now expect to find it's from a James Captain or something similar but stamped up as an Eddie Dow secret prototype for Small Heath.  I note there is no mention of engine number on the registration document so assume I won't get pulled over and grilled by the fuzz, as we used to say in the 70s. 

[chaterlea25]

HI,
I'm no expert on the forensics of original or not BSA sampings
But attached are a couple of examples that I found on the net and ebay
Original stampings on the engine can be quite irregular but are all the same size and stamped into the rough cast surface
Frame numbers are stamped like the example in the pic
HTH
John

[CrispinA10]

That's very interesting - thank you. I would say from seeing the examples that the stamping on mine is an attempt to replicate what might have been there in the first place before someone had a good go at making the block shiny rather than rough cast, at some stage. The DA10 R appears on both. Does R stand for Rocket? And do the letters below indicate anything such as cam type?
The R on mine is clearly a different size.
Thanks for the information.

[chaterlea25]

Hi,
The "R" was on the Road and Super Rocket engines
"HHC" denotes high compression and spitfire cam

Yours looks like it used ordinary A10 cases and the R was added,
As I said the numbers other than the first "1" look different,
maybe replacement cases that were stamped up to match the originals

John

[Peter Gee]

ALL Rockets and RGS had an R stamping only. The last YOM for RGS  and Spitfires was 1963, and the last number DA10R-8197 and the last RGS ( Rockets were discontinued before RGS)  was DA10R-10388 and the last  paired frame number was GA10-1914.

Have never heard of any BSA engine with the letters KNOW stamped on it

RGS also had their own frame numbers, starting in 1962 with GA10-101 and ending with said GA10-1914. Therefore only 1,814 RGS were actually made from what I can tell.

Spitfires and RGS overlapped only for  1962-1963.

GA10-390 was the first of the  run of RGS frame numbers in 1963, matching to engine  DA10R-8197.

If yours is genuine, and the amount of fakes are huge, then it is among the last built.

Cheers

Peter G

[chaterlea25]

Hi Peter,
Crispin states in his first post that the bike is a replica

John

[trevinoz]

Peter,
                   Road Rockets had "RR" stamped on the engine number, at least the ones I have seen in this country.

[Rgs-Bill]

   The DA 10  and the 1 first number in the serial number look to all be from the same original BSA faunt of stamping tools.
   Now the R  and the 0029  are all from a smaller lettered stamping kit more of modern day stamping kits, like you buy at Harbor Freight Tools.
   But why would any one think they were fooling another person into thinking this was an original RGS, with the blatently different faunts on the heads of the stamping letters and numbers.  And then the  (KNOW)  down below and   no HHC below the serial numbers to denote High Compression and 67-357 spitfire cam.  None of this makes any sense as an example to try and fool someone into thinking this is an original factory stamping, it is too obviously not a factory stamping.

     Just my .02 cents worth, I just could not let this go by without saying it.  ! ! ! !   

[CrispinA10]

Just to confirm that the bike was indeed built and sold as a replica, with no suggestion that it was a genuine RGS. The price reflected that - I see there's a real one on eBay for £22,000 at the moment. Blimey! I'm most grateful for the information on engine numbers though. I'm writing to the previous owner regarding the rebuild and hope to find out what the engine actually is - although 1960 Super Rocket does seem likely. The frame appears to be a very good imitation of an RGS, with four welded engine lugs and the correct rear set fittings. The frame number is GA 74558 which I would guess means it is from an A7 and cunningly tweaked.

[muskrat]

G'day Crispin. All A7 & A10 frames (bar the RGS) were stamped *A7.****. A real RGS would be stamped GA10.****. As long as you enjoy your bike it doesn't really matter.
Cheers

[RichardL]

I think I don't agree with the idea that the "0029" is faked. The "00" has every indication (to me) of being from the same stamp used for "DA10". If we assume that the "R" is faked, then a DA10 10029 would have been a '61 model. I don't see amongst the available engine numbers how Peter gets a '63 DA10R-10388. However, I do see the DA10R 8197. I could be missing something. 

I measured the height of my own numbers and came to the conclusion that BSA was using a 1/4" number set and a slightly smaller set for letters. (The exact set size doesn't really matter.) This looks like it's true in John's photos and Crispin's photos, as well. I scaled Crispin's photo to approximate these dimensions and moved it to AutoCAD. You can see in the photo that the letters measure smaller than the numbers. The boxes around the "D" and the "R" are the same size, which implies that the shorter appearance of the "R" is an illusion from being next to the numbers and also being below the line. Regardless, I am also of the opinion that the "R" was not put there by BSA.

Well, that was fun.

Richard L.

[muskrat]

Detective Richard
You've got too much time at the computer. Now get out and play in the traffic.
Cheers

[RichardL]

Basically, just procrastinating real work, which is now ending for the night at 2:35 AM. So, if I hadn't played around, ending at 2:15 AM isn't buying much in the end.

Good news is, later today I'll have time to ride. If I haven't mentioned it, I'm jazzed that my recent rework of rings and such is just completed and she seems to run well, but today will tell more. Break out the crying towel if I come back with a tale of woe.

Richard L.