FWH brake shoes

[KeithJ]

The shoes on my FWH don't have any metal "covers" on the flat ends.  Should they?
My lever arm goes over too far but the linings are about 4mm thick and still look as though they have plenty of meat on them.  I remember some years ago, I did have some shoes which did have separate metal end caps/covers to make them "floating".

Many thanks

[morris]

I think they should have. Otherwise the aluminium will quickly wear away.
Did these shoes came like that, or have they come off somehow?

[KeithJ]

The shoes have been in my bike for years.  They have been relined at least once and the faces don't show any sign of wear.  Oops!
ATB

K

[morris]

  As I said, I think they should...
All of mine have them. Suppose you already tried to position the arm differently?

[KeithJ]

Yes, tried to reposition the arm but no joy.  Hence, looking at re-lining.  Will make a few phone calls tomorrow to see if I can get them.  Never too old to learn eh!

ATB

K

[chaterlea25]

Hi
Keith
Make some shoe shims /pads from 1.5mm steel strip, fold it around the ends of the shoe to keep it in place
This will restore the correct angle of the operating lever

Works for me
John

[KeithJ]

Good idea.  Will raid my odds and sods to see if I have anything suitable

Just called two BSA spares people and one said the shoes come with the "covers" and some were integral.   The other said A1's0 did not have them but A65's did.  Will try the A65 ones. 

Next question is what is needed to make a front FWH in to a fully floating type?  Is it shoes with flat ends and a different pivot?

[trevinoz]

The floating shoes have the steel covers but the non floating don't.
The floating shoes are flat on both ends and the non floating have semi circular recesses on one end.
Apparently only very late production A10s had the floating shoes but seem to be standard on A65s. Makes sense as they were in production at the same time.
I am not 100% sure but I think that the floating shoes can be fitted in lieu of the non floating.
My '62 Rocket has floating shoes and I think that there is nothing different in the cam etc.

[KeithJ]

Pretty much what I had come to believe.  Tried some A65 end covers but they don't fit A10 shoes.  The ends of the A10 shoes are too long.

So A65 floating shoes are the ones used on A10's for their floating shoes?
 
Still living and learning.

[trevinoz]

Keith,
           The early A65 hubs are the same as the late A10. Front brake plate is the same, rear can be different depending on whether cable or rod operated.

[KeithJ]

From what I have gleaned, the floating shoes fit both late A10 and early A65 brake plates.  However, the pivot is different in that it is "floating".  Evidently, it has a wavy washer/belville washer on it.  The retaining nut does not lock the pivot tight but allows it to 'float" against the spring on the washer. Not sure how the nut is "locked" to stop it coming undone.  Perhaps the pivot is slightly different?

ATB

Keith

[trevinoz]

If you mean the fixed pin, Keith, it should be tight in the plate and not move.

[bsa-bill]

but allows it to 'float"

yes that's sort of correct, the idea is you leave it a little slack, spin the wheel and apply the brake sharply, do this two or three times, on the final spin and brake keep pressure on the brake and tighten the pin up in that position, this centralizes the shoes.
you need to think ahead a bit, have spanner handy and position yourself so you can keep pressure on the brake lever as you use the spanner.

I'm not sure floating shoes were not a user modification, made by filing the round semicircular hole in the shoe end to oblong so the shoe could slide and centralize, other comments welcome lads, also whether and floating pin and shoes could be used together probably

again others will comment but I thought the shoes with the steel slider things were for use on TLS brakes

[raindodger]

When I went through the boxes that, eventually, became my 1958 (mostly) A10, I found a floating shoe front brake.  I had the shoes relined and tried, over the next 18 months, to make it work.  I failed.  The brake was totally useless.  I tried everything, different linings, radiused the shoes to the drum, checked lever angles, changed the hand lever to one with the shorter fulcrum distance, nothing worked.  So, I bit the bullet and changed to a pair of pivoted shoes, the improvement was immediate and has improved as bedding in progressed.  I can't say it's a brilliant brake (were they ever?) but both brakes used together are quite effective.  Being of advanced years, I tend to ride at moderate speeds (60 max) and find the brake perfectly adequate.

Tim.

[Greybeard]

Being of advanced years, I tend to ride at moderate speeds....and find the brake perfectly adequate.

Same here