Clutch Cable Length

[RichardL]

Bill, It seems to me that the outer ("housing") must remain trapped between the adjusters, so I can't see how they they can affect the difference between the inner and outer while doing that job.

 because screwing the adjusters in or out alters the length of the outer in comparison to the inner, you have the length of the adjusters to add to or subtract from the original length of the outer.
How did you guys get to the moon 

We wore Swiss watches. But seriously, you can't change the lengtth of the outer with respect to the inner by using the adjusters. The outer isn't stretchy springy. What I think  happens is that you can retract and extend the inner with respect to its attachment point because, when the opposite end is anchored,  the outer and inner move together while changing the arc of the slack with the adjuster.

If this is right, I'll still but your beer (within reason!)*when we ultimately get together.

Richard L.



Richard L.

[bsa-bill]

you can't change the lengtth of the outer with respect to the inner by using the adjusters.

if you count the adjusters as part of the outer then of course you can, every time you turn an adjuster a full turn you alter the outer by the length of one thread on the adjuster.
Just to demonstrate and confuse matters even more
If t = one thread ( say 1/16th of an inch) then in the above quote you altered the length of length to lengtth, 1/16th longer than it was before 

[RichardL]

Uhh, let's assume the ends of the inner are not connected. Once the backsides of the adjusters are both in contact with the outer, all you can control with the adjusters is how much gap exists between the ends of the outer and the basksides of the adjusters OR the general position of the outer (that is, either slightly closer to the lever or slightly closer to the gearbox, but still snug between the adjusters).

Is Budweiser expensive in England? How about Foster's?

Richard L.

[duTch]

 

Feel free to grab a bludgeon and join in if you want,

 

But seriously, you can't change the lengtth of the outer with respect to the inner by using the adjusters. The outer isn't stretchy springy........ .....

Yes you can, as Bill said which is much the same as;

What I think  happens is that you can retract and extend the inner with respect to its attachment point because, when the opposite end is anchored,.....

(But I have to suggest that the bottom adjuster is BSC/26tpi which will equal every turn to be 1/26" not 1/16" )
 

the outer and inner move together while changing the arc of the slack with the adjuster.

   
 Anyway- apart from a few overall measurements for later reference, you're best to hide all the measuring devices and simply make it to fit; fairly much as Beezermacc said

 1> select a overall outer cable length that is not too tight bends, nor likely to bind/stretch when turning handlebar.
 2> screw adjusters '~fully in' (giving consideration to lever/arm-adjuster conflict- **see photo with arrows and circles- thanks muskie) **
 3> fit a nipple to one end (which end doesn't matter- top first may enable easier bottom fitment? ) make inner cable to suit with arms and levers in 'riding position/transit mode'
 4> Ride bike

 ** this is important, top and bottom- otherwise lever will be restricted in its travel

[RichardL]

  I'll float it again. The physical length of the outer housing does not change with movement of the adjusters. Nevertheless still trying to avoid 

That said, Dutch, your method sounds perfect, except I was trying to figure out fairly accurate numbers to give to a shop to fabicate the cable for me.

Richard L.

[bsa-bill]

(But I have to suggest that the bottom adjuster is BSC/26tpi which will equal every turn to be 1/26" not 1/16" )

yes your right of course the 16th was just for example purposes 

If we ever meet Richard I'll buy the drinks, I just admire your persistence 

[morris]

For a clutch cable I usually have a look on a reputable dealers' website, select the one I want, sit back, relax and wait for the postman...
Resulted in two cables of perfect length. One for the plunger and one for the SA.

[RichardL]

That may be easier in the UK (but maybe not Belgium) than here in the US, but it's a holiday weekend and I've been unable to phone anyone here (and just realized I could have phoned SRM today for their opinion). I'm still concerned that the stock part number may be the wrong length inner consider the original lever did not have an adjuster, but today's aftermarket versions do. Also, I didn't want to wait for Uk post.

Richard L.

[duTch]

 I knew that Bill ....but in case someone reads it in the future and takes it as 'set in stone fact'

 The reason I suggest ditching the measuring devices is because each bike is likely to be slightly different, depending on levers and stuff...
  I've attached the photo of my 'notes'- don't try and analyse it...... this refers to the cable that like Morris, I bought for my Plunger from a place (Trojan Classic in Sydney), thought the outer was too long so cut a bit off, only to find it was ok anyway- I'd done something dumb but can't recall what.
  It's shorter than the previous one I bodged, but maybe a bit too short overall, which reminds me I need to swap them over (note to self)

 ..and don't forget

Best to have at least one, preferably both nipples with swivel capabilities

 

[Butch (cb)]

But going back to an earlier point – yes you would expect the inner to stretch over time. That would introduce more slack into the system e.g. clutch lever would come back further towards the bars. You adjust this by winding an adjuster out a little; thus effectively introducing that stretch amount into the outer. Normal operations are restored. That may help, but I have another observation (which won’t) …

I’ve also had cause to mess around with bicycles over the years. On these a cable is used to operate the gear shift at the rear derailleur. A couple of my gear cassettes back there are 10 speed, so the adjustment is quite critical  to ensure good crisp indexed shifting. And over time they do move out and need a tweak. BUT – it is always as if the inner has shrunk. I have to move the adjuster to effectively reduce the outer length. How can this be? The inner surely hasn’t really shrunk, but similarly the outer can’t have grown. Wear in the shift mechanism?

Beyond which, I think Richard should consider a hydraulic conversion.

[morris]

Beyond which, I think Richard should consider a hydraulic conversion.

Now that would be the day...!

[bsa-bill]

Beyond which, I think Richard should consider a hydraulic conversion.

but then there is the length of the pipe to consider 

I knew that Bill ....but in case someone reads it in the future and takes it as 'set in stone fact'

of course , sorry was a bit befuddled at the time

preferably both nipples with swivel capabilities

now we're talking (but not necessarily BSA)

[RichardL]

You adjust this by winding an adjuster out a little; thus effectively introducing that stretch amount into the outer. Normal operations are restored.

And over time they do move out and need a tweak. BUT – it is always as if the inner has shrunk. I have to move the adjuster to effectively reduce the outer length. How can this be? The inner surely hasn’t really shrunk, but similarly the outer can’t have grown. Wear in the shift mechanism?

Per my previous, I am still thinking that taking up such excess exposed inner (while the other end is anchored) is a matter of pushing the outer away from the lever and into a different radius. The inner would then be along for the ride.

As for derailleurs, you made me go to Google to review their operation. I have a vintage Raleigh Competition, that I bought in ''73, the same year I bought my A10. I am really shooting in the dark here (and way off of A10s) but wouldn't a shorter cable tend to pull you toward lower gears? Taking Relativity into account, this seems the same affect as a weak spring attempting (and unable) to return the derailleur to the highest gear.

As for hydraulics, never before the sun crosses the yard arm.

Richard L.

[Greybeard]

Richard,
I have not read all of the above posts but I started to write this a while ago so thought I'd post it anyway.

I've made up bicycle cables but not motorbike ones. This is how I would make a clutch cable. First of all just plan and fit the outer cable, making sure that it has a nice, easy run, taking into account full lock steering movement.
For the inner, attach the top nipple and put it into the handlebar lever. Grease the cable and feed it into the outer, not forgetting the adjuster at the gearbox. The adjuster should be screwed well, (but not fully*) into the gearbox abutment to later allow for the outer to be lengthened, which has the same effect as shortening the inner if/when it gets stretched. Make sure the inner cable is pulled properly tight and mark where the gearbox nipple needs to go. Cut the cable; thoroughly clean the grease from the cable strands and the nipple. Slide the nipple on and splay the ends into the nipple countersink then solder or braze the nipple into place. Adjust if necessary, (*by screwing adjuster into the abutment) to give a small, (1/8") slack of movement.

[RichardL]

Good method, as far as I can tell.

Richard L.