Author Topic: Newbie introduction and first questions.  (Read 5526 times)

Offline Brummie1960

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Newbie introduction and first questions.
« on: 02.06. 2009 19:43 »
Hi,

I have been reading the posts on here for a while and find it a very informative and
entertaining forum.

Recently I bought my first proper bike - ostensibly a 1960 BSA A10 Golden Flash.
As I was also made in Birmingham in 1960 it seemed a good match  *smiley4*

Having stripped it down now it seems to be something of a bitsa; I guess most are at
this age. The engine had what looks to a later type squarer finned cast-iron cylinder head on an earlier
round-finned, thin flange barrel. When that was all lifted off I found the barrel was broken
at the front part of the flange, and also the crankcase has chunks cracked off around 3 of the
studs. I have now got a later squarer finned, thick flange barrel which looks a good match
when the head is on it, and I need to get the crackcases sorted.

The first question relates to engine and frame numbers. From a guide I found online
the engine looks to be an earlyish 1961  - DA10 132xx. The frame though doesn't match
for the year, which the guide says should start GA7-11101. Mine is GA10-116xx.
So the numbers look to be in the correct range for 1961, but not the prefix, which seems was used on
Super Flash, Spitfire and RGS frames. Did they also use GA10 frames on Gold Flashes?

Second question is about the petrol tank. It came with a tank that looks superficially to my eyes to
have the outside shape of an A10 tank, but underneath it only has one petrol tap on the left side of the bike. Looking at A10's at a recent show they all seem to have 2 taps.

The underside of the tank is not symmetrical i.e where the tap is the tank has a flat bottom, but on the other side the bottom is concave. I know its not the right tank for the year as it has round badges and should have pear-shaped ones for 1961, but is it even an A10 tank?

Thanks,

Nigel.






Offline LJ.

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Re: Newbie introduction and first questions.
« Reply #1 on: 02.06. 2009 21:43 »
Hi Nigel and welcome to the forum! I also was made in 1960 and run 1960 A10s! If you say you have a bit of a bitsa then your very much in luck as far as the frame goes, are you sure its an GA10 frame and not GA7? What you have is a desirable Rocket Gold Star Frame and worth quite a bit of money to RGS builders. There are other parts on the frame that identifies the frame to be RGS but I'm not too sure of them, there are guys who will put you right on that.

Cheers!
LJ.
Ride Safely Lads! LJ.
**********************
1940 BSA M20 500cc Girder/Rigid- (SOLD)
1947 BSA M21 600cc Girder/Rigid-Green
1949 BSA A7   500cc Girder/Plunger Star Twin-(SOLD)
1953 BSA B33  500cc Teles/Plunger-Maroon
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Blue
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Red

Offline 69Bonni

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Re: Newbie introduction and first questions.
« Reply #2 on: 02.06. 2009 23:23 »
Hi Nigel and Welcome!

You dont want that nasty old frame send it down here to me in Hampshire and i'll send you back a Gold Flash frame to match your engine!
Only Joking! LJ bless him is right it is indeed a RGS Frame 1963, quick ID would be the Large engine mounting lugs on the front down tubes of the duplex frame. There are thick mounts that run round the whole tube at the top mounting and the bottom mounting should be the same. On a standard (if you like) frame the top mounting was thick and the lower was just a small eye welded to the frame. There are a lot of other differences, i can send you some pictures tomorrow. But with that frame number it is a RGS frame, so hold onto it!
All you need now is a A10R engine and you have yourself a Rocket Gold Star in my view one of the best sports bikes built! and the loveliest looking!
Gold Flashes were prefixed frame numbers FA7, GA7 earlier ones were EA7 or CA7.

Good question about the tank it could even be a A65 Tank i have seen A10 tanks with one petrol tap though. But if i were id be looking at getting a Goldstar tank there not cheap but they make them in India now of all places and you can pick one up off ebay new you just need to paint it (oh and before you get the rivet counters kicking off the Indian Tanks are good! i have an original but rusty GS tank and an Indian one, the Indian one weighs a fair bit more than the British one! and its a nice tank)

There that's given you something to thing about!!!
There's lots of Great people here that will help you out and answer questions.

Kind regards
Steve
Kind Regards
Steve Rickman

Online trevinoz

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Re: Newbie introduction and first questions.
« Reply #3 on: 02.06. 2009 23:28 »
Steve, all of the late A10 frames had the front engine mounts as per the RGS frame.
If the frame in question has a number with five digits, I would not think it is genuine.
Trev.

Offline BSA_54A10

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Re: Newbie introduction and first questions.
« Reply #4 on: 03.06. 2009 00:02 »
One tap tanks were fitted to a lot of contract bikes ( police, army AA etc etc) to cut down costs.
Most single bolt tanks can be interchanged so it could be off anything.
BSA made their own tanks so the top 1/2 is common to a lot of different bikes.
When you start to make them it becomes blindingly obvious.
Pop over to Daniels Bosses Rocket page and have a look.
You will probably be able to swap your frame for a rough but running complete 1960 A10, if the frame is genuine. They are rare, quite valuable and sought after.
Or you could go the other way and find an engine to match your frame ( it is not going to be cheap ) and build up one of BSA's most beautiful machines.
Or of course as it is your bike you could fit a CX shadow motor and make a custom paint it purple with pink spots.
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Offline 69Bonni

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Re: Newbie introduction and first questions.
« Reply #5 on: 03.06. 2009 09:05 »
Hi Nigel, Trev and the guys,

I knew RGS had the thicker mounts but a 61 flash i used to have didnt, but your probably dead right Trev. The Frame number does seem a bit strange looking at my books GA10 all seem to have 4 digits after the prefix GA7 frames went to 5 digits unless its been "got at" Take a look here also:-http://www.bsaownersclub.co.uk/Engine_Frame_Listing.html

Right heres the definitive!
1.Hole in swing arm tube is for cross over brake - too big for genuine RGS. RGS had brake pedal mounted as 1954 / 55 A10
1a Small hole for swing arm spindle
2.RGS did not have sidecar lugs, but did have welded clubmans' footrest mounts.
2a Hole for brake pivot and fittings for clubmans' footrests.
3.Thin gauge stand mount plates. RGS has heavier gauge steel.
3a Heavier gauge steel
4.Upper pump mount. RGS did not have pump mount.
4a.No pump mount
5.Armours silencer!
6.Standard headlamp. RGS had lighting plug/socket.
6a RGS headlamp
7.Standard barrels. RGS had staggered fins down centre. See equivalent photo in RGS genuine album.
7a Every other fin discontinuous at centre
8.Frame no. RGS should have prefix GA10
8a Prefix GA10
9.RGS has cast, not welded, engine mounts
9a Cast engine mounts
10.RGS has deeper gap between battery tray mounting and cross member. Check equivalent photo in RGS genuine album.
10a Big gaps between mounting and cross member.
11a. Wider than standard
12a siamese pipes
13a Finned (behind sprocket) and has outrigger strap as per 1954 / 55 bikes
14a for use with clubmans' footrests / trim
14a Big gaps between mounting and cross member.

More pictures next post!
Steve
Kind Regards
Steve Rickman

Offline 69Bonni

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Re: Newbie introduction and first questions.
« Reply #6 on: 03.06. 2009 09:10 »
Heres some more!

Match the items with the text description!
I have left out the pictures of the headlamp shell and Frame stamping as there abit obvious
Kind Regards
Steve Rickman

Offline 69Bonni

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Heres the last
Other items listed are fairly obvioius ... Hope this helps Nigel

Kind Regards
Steve
Kind Regards
Steve Rickman

Offline LJ.

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Re: Newbie introduction and first questions.
« Reply #8 on: 03.06. 2009 09:24 »
Really good and interesting post Steve thanks for that!
Ride Safely Lads! LJ.
**********************
1940 BSA M20 500cc Girder/Rigid- (SOLD)
1947 BSA M21 600cc Girder/Rigid-Green
1949 BSA A7   500cc Girder/Plunger Star Twin-(SOLD)
1953 BSA B33  500cc Teles/Plunger-Maroon
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Blue
1961 BSA A10  650cc Golden Flash-Red

Offline 69Bonni

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Re: Newbie introduction and first questions.
« Reply #9 on: 03.06. 2009 10:26 »
I love your bikes LJ and i think it was you that brought me to the forum with your wheel aligning tool!!

I cant beleive i have been buggering around with trying to make something fancy with Lasers and you come up with something simple and Brillent!!!

It was you im sure as i recognise your red and blue bikes!

Kind Regards

Steve
Look this up folks its brillent!
Kind Regards
Steve Rickman

Offline A10Boy

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Re: Newbie introduction and first questions.
« Reply #10 on: 03.06. 2009 20:09 »
Hi Nigel and welcome to the forum.

It sounds like you have got a very interesting bike there. It would be interesting to see what the BSA owners club have to say regarding your frame. It would be great if they confirmed that it was indeed originally a RGS sold in 1963.

Are you going to repair the cases or replace them, maybe the lads at Yeomans could find you a decent set.

BTW, where abouts are you in Brum ?
Regards

Andy

1958 Super Rocket
Plus
1974 Kawasaki Z1a
Yam XJR 1300

Offline Brummie1960

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Re: Newbie introduction and first questions.
« Reply #11 on: 04.06. 2009 17:25 »
Hi,

I was at Lightning Spares in Sale yesterday and owner Brian Pollitt used to be the BSAOC dating officer
so I mentioned the frame number to him. Seems there have been cases of people rigging up standard frames to look like RGS ones, but as mine is registered with the DVLA I shouldn't have a problem.

As to what it is, well.....

Brian mentioned something that was not in Steve's excellent list which is that no RGS's had a steering lock fitted. Mine does, and has the hole in the steering head for the pin to drop down into.

I just checked other points on the frame against Steve's pictures and it has upper and lower pump mounts, it has cast upper but welded lower engine mounts, has no welded clubman's footrest mounts and has hardly any gap between the lower battery tray mount and the frame cross member.

So it looks like a plain Gold Flash frame that somehow has acquired a GA10 prefixed number over the years.

Thanks to everyone for the information and encouragement. I am looking forward to rebuilding this over the next few months and sharing the trials and tribulations along the way.

Nigel.

Offline 69Bonni

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Re: Newbie introduction and first questions.
« Reply #12 on: 04.06. 2009 22:13 »
Nigel
Oh yes forgot about the steering lock!
But what i wanted to say was dont be disheartened by this. To be honest theres a lot of fun and enjoyment and a sense of achievement about building your "OWN" bike! dont listen to all that old "Originality" Bo**ocks the rivet counters will give you! Yes its nice perhaps to have a bike where the engine numbers and frame match, BUT when i was a kid (me and many like me) when your bike blew up you didnt consider originality only what it takes to get it back on the road, if the scrap man only had an B31 engine that's what went in your A10! You had to get to work. and down the cafe on Friday night!
As i have said to others im amazed there are any bikes with matching engine and frame numbers! look at it another way, you can build the bike as what ever you like now, and thats exactly why i bought the road rocket basket case i have to build as an RGS. Its not matching numbers its a Bitsa! therefore im not desecrating an "original" bike.
And another thing i defy anybody to define Original! For a start the RGS the original ones were NOT factory built! They were built by Eddie Dow and alike until finally the factory cottoned on. (i mean the clever clogs at the shows never spotted my 69 Bonnie actually has a TR6 frame).

So build it as you like, make it what you want, most of all enjoy it! let the guys here relieve you of some of the hair pulling out! There is a wealth of experience here and there great guys, im new to this forum but not to bikes Grew up with them in the Rickman Family. Were all here to make each others lives a little easier and enjoy our bikes.

The A10 is a great bike so lets have some pictures sometime

Kind Regards
Steve
Kind Regards
Steve Rickman