Author Topic: Gearbox identification  (Read 1200 times)

Offline RogerSB

  • 1960 Golden Flash, Plymouth, Devon, England
  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2017
  • Posts: 706
  • Karma: 9
Gearbox identification
« on: 24.08. 2017 08:53 »
Hi, I'm new here, so here's an introduction.

Earlier in the year I bought my current Golden Flash. I had two GFs in the mid 60s and several other marques, British and Japanese in between. My current A10 was supplied to the dealer in Bristol on 7 January 1960 and registered on 18 January 1960 in Bristol, UK and is unrestored. It has a lovely (not scruffy) patina of 57 years of use. Runs sweet, gearbox ok, starts first or second kick and passed its MOT test in July with no problems.

My only niggle when I first bought it was that it was virtually impossible to select neutral with the engine running (old, old story). With engine stopped it was fine. Then I discovered it had the pre 1960 6-spring clutch. The first thing I did when I took possession was change all the oil, cables, renew a lot of old wiring, removed wheels to check brakes etc., adjusted the chains and had the chronometric (non working) speedo repaired.

The cable I bought was pt no 42-8775 for a 1960 A10 and it was the same as the one I took off, which because the ferrule wouldn't fit in the abutment lug on the gearbox it was held steady against the back of the lug with a washer. Puzzled by this, the easiest thing I could think of doing was to file the ferrule down to size to fit snug in the lug hole (not my ear!). With a bit of adjustment of the operating arm's internal adjuster I can now select neutral with the engine running and the clutch lever is a lot lighter to pull. So happy with that.

Now my cable puzzle. Obviously my gearbox lug is for the earlier cable with the adjuster at the gearbox end. The 42-8775 cable's adjuster is at the lever end only. My first thought was to buy an earlier cable (pt no 67-8681) with adjuster at gearbox end and also fit a slide-on adjuster at the lever. I will mention here that my front brake has the post 60s cable with the adjuster at the lever end and not at the brake back plate end and there is no thread in the back plate lug to fit one - so obviously for the later front brake cable.

My next thought was has the gearbox been changed sometime in the past 57 years for a pre 60s one - highly likely - hence the previous bodge when someone fitted a later cable, probably to fit the original handlebar lever. I know the gearbox internals for pre 60 and post 60 models are the same - so no problem there but can anyone identify my gearbox from the letters and numbers stamped on the case and inner cover?

I'm curious to know if my A10 came out of the Birmingham factory like this, as to be registered on 18th January 1960 it had to be assembled in 1959. So is it a hybrid with the factory using up some earlier parts? Or would it be definitely a post 60s model out of the factory that has had the gearbox changed?

I believe I can get around having to file a ferrule again if I ever need to replace the cable again. I have bought an earlier 67-8681 cable (to suit the gearbox lug) and a couple of slide-on adjusters for the handlebar levers. I've also got a front brake cable (pt no 42-8774) with no adjuster at the back plate end of the cable and room to fit a slid-on at the lever end - so effecting matching brake and clutch lever adjusters and keeping my original levers designed to take adjusters.
Good Advice
0
No reactions

1960 Golden Flash

Offline duTch

  • Ricketty Rocketty Golden Flashback
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 4540
  • Karma: 41
Re: Gearbox identification
« Reply #1 on: 24.08. 2017 09:33 »

 Hiya RogerThat- was epic reading on a phone- at first i thought you were asking about the Speedo cable *eek*; my opinion is the early cable will work nice  but use a lock nut on  the outside to compensate for not having a thread in the casting, which i will assume to be stock for the era.
 Can't comment on the brake-  don't have one
Good Advice
0
No reactions
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline RogerSB

  • 1960 Golden Flash, Plymouth, Devon, England
  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2017
  • Posts: 706
  • Karma: 9
Re: Gearbox identification
« Reply #2 on: 24.08. 2017 10:28 »
Thanks DuTch for your reply. Sorry for long story to read on a mobile. Done on pc.
There is a thread inside the lug with slot for cable (see pic). It was suggested I drill it out to take the later cable but worried about weakening it and it breaking off - causing an even worse headache.
Good Advice
0
No reactions

1960 Golden Flash

Online BSA_54A10

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 2033
  • Karma: 32
    • BSA National
Re: Gearbox identification
« Reply #3 on: 24.08. 2017 11:07 »
Firstly adjust the pressure plate.
Six springer need to be adjusted using a tickler gauge to get them lifting square.
A PIA job , but once done properly it is really a sweet clutch.
Once you have the pressure plate lifting dead square you then back off till the clutch will slip with the bike in gear and front wheel hard into a wall, then tighten them all 1/2 turn.
You will be amazed at just how light and sweet that clutch can be.

Next get a slotted cable adjuster as fitted to most of the unit BSA's.
Slip the adjuster onto the cable then screw into the gearbox.
If you can find one, fit 2 lock nuts, one against the box to prevent the adjuster unscrewing and another at the opposite end to stop the cable popping out of the adjuster.
Good Advice
0
No reactions
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Online Topdad

  • bob hebdon
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 2253
  • Karma: 32
  • l
Re: Gearbox identification
« Reply #4 on: 24.08. 2017 11:46 »
 *welcome* hope you enjoy the place of good company and vast knowledge ,generously given to anyone who need s help  or just a laugh ! Sorry can't agree with Trevor re the six spring unit,  *fight*      He's a better mechanic than me but  if it working leave the thing alone when it stops change it for a 4 springer tri clutch and keep your sanity and ride more often cheers Bob
Good Advice
0
No reactions
" rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the blind obediance of fools"
United Kingdom

Offline duTch

  • Ricketty Rocketty Golden Flashback
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 4540
  • Karma: 41
Re: Gearbox identification
« Reply #5 on: 24.08. 2017 13:27 »

 I may need to retract my notion that your box is ridgy-didge...maybe/maybe not- not sure when the adjusters were deleted from the box end, but you may be close to the changeover time..... DON'T drill the thread out anyway

 My situation is the opposite; has the box adjuster as standard, but have added the '59-'62 lever (happened accidentally but works for me anyway )
Good Advice
0
No reactions
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Online Greybeard

  • Jack of all trades; master of none.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 6433
  • Karma: 36
Re: Gearbox identification
« Reply #6 on: 24.08. 2017 17:49 »
I know we keep going over this but the early 6 spring clutch, (that is on my Plungie) is fine. My gearbox has the threaded clutch cable abutment lug. No adjusters on the handlebar levers.
Good Advice
0
No reactions

Offline RogerSB

  • 1960 Golden Flash, Plymouth, Devon, England
  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2017
  • Posts: 706
  • Karma: 9
Re: Gearbox identification
« Reply #7 on: 24.08. 2017 17:57 »
Well, thanks for all your replies.


Ridgy-didge??? Had to do a Google search to know what that meant!


As far as I can work out the box with slot and thread in the lug for adjuster at g/box was up to 1959. Changed for 1960 models with straight through hole to take a cable with ferrule and built in adjuster at handlebar lever end. The post 60 cable (42-8775) is what I thought my bike needed but I had to modify it to fit. (ok, . . . yes I know I should have looked at g/box end first).


My clutch is working fine (now I can find neutral). That was sorted by tweeking the push rod adjuster and fitting the new cable. It's just the mix-match that's puzzling me. My GF has it's its original levers for post 60 cables but I've ordered an earlier cable (67-8681) with built-in adjuster at gearbox end and there seems to be plenty of spare inner to fit a slide-on adjuster at handlebar end to fit my levers. Pic attached - see where the adjusting nut is.
Good Advice
0
No reactions

1960 Golden Flash

Online Black Sheep

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2017
  • Posts: 736
  • Karma: 6
    • Where black sheep live
Re: Gearbox identification
« Reply #8 on: 24.08. 2017 18:10 »
Have to agree about the threaded hole - DON'T DRILL IT OUT! Just fit the appropriate clutch cable. Yes, BSA didn't change everything on the exact date of the new model year. Not unknown for batches of items produced (gearbox castings perhaps?) from earlier years to be used up on later spec models. As is exactly the case with my wife's A10. It has the earlier threaded lug for the clutch cable. We've had that bike since 1972 and are pretty certain that no gearbox changes had occurred prior to that. Nor since. Don't lose sleep over it. It's just what BSA did.
Good Advice
0
No reactions
2 twins, 2 singles, lots of sheep

Offline RogerSB

  • 1960 Golden Flash, Plymouth, Devon, England
  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2017
  • Posts: 706
  • Karma: 9
Re: Gearbox identification
« Reply #9 on: 24.08. 2017 22:04 »
Hi Black Sheep,


Thanks for your welcomed input. My GF hasn't been restored and is in pretty good condition so I was hoping to hear something like that. As it was delivered to the dealer just after the New Year in 1960 I had the feeling that the factory may have done that sort of thing to use up parts, especially when they were struggling to keep going. Easy to see why and how previous owners may have fitted cables for a 1960 model when it is a 1960 model (like I did), when perhaps they should have fitted earlier ones.


I've had to do some head scratching and searching but I now know I can get earlier cables to fit both clutch and front brake and fit slide-on adjusters with thumb screws at the handlebar levers and then it may be as it was in January 1960.


Photo of my 2nd GF in mid 60s. Rode it Plymouth to Portsmouth most weekends for a year when serving in the RM, took about 6 hours on the roads we had then.
Good Advice
0
No reactions

1960 Golden Flash

Offline trevinoz

  • Newcastle, N.S.W. Australia.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2006
  • Posts: 2922
  • Karma: 67
Re: Gearbox identification
« Reply #10 on: 24.08. 2017 22:20 »
BUT, if the gearbox was fitted in the factory, there would have to have been special cables made to suit.
Is this likely?
Good Advice
0
No reactions

Online Black Sheep

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2017
  • Posts: 736
  • Karma: 6
    • Where black sheep live
Re: Gearbox identification
« Reply #11 on: 25.08. 2017 06:27 »
All I can tell you is how it was with our GF. How it looks now. It was gold coloured when we lashed out £45 for it back in '72.
Good Advice
0
No reactions
2 twins, 2 singles, lots of sheep

Offline duTch

  • Ricketty Rocketty Golden Flashback
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 4540
  • Karma: 41
Re: Gearbox identification
« Reply #12 on: 25.08. 2017 09:26 »

 
Quote
BUT, if the gearbox was fitted in the factory, there would have to have been special cables made to suit.
Is this likely?

 geez Trev, I can't give a definitive answer, but given some other apparent bodges they did, I wouldn't be surprised; after all, it wouldn't have been that hard to do given that I managed... *smile*
Good Advice
0
No reactions
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Online KiwiGF

  • Last had an A10 in 1976, in 2011 it was time for my 2nd one. It was the project from HELL (but I learned a lot....)
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 1506
  • Karma: 13
Re: Gearbox identification
« Reply #13 on: 25.08. 2017 09:44 »
Well, thanks for all your replies.


Ridgy-didge??? Had to do a Google search to know what that meant!


As far as I can work out the box with slot and thread in the lug for adjuster at g/box was up to 1959. Changed for 1960 models with straight through hole to take a cable with ferrule and built in adjuster at handlebar lever end. The post 60 cable (42-8775) is what I thought my bike needed but I had to modify it to fit. (ok, . . . yes I know I should have looked at g/box end first).


My clutch is working fine (now I can find neutral). That was sorted by tweeking the push rod adjuster and fitting the new cable. It's just the mix-match that's puzzling me. My GF has it's its original levers for post 60 cables but I've ordered an earlier cable (67-8681) with built-in adjuster at gearbox end and there seems to be plenty of spare inner to fit a slide-on adjuster at handlebar end to fit my levers. Pic attached - see where the adjusting nut is.

Maybe the gearbox outer cover has been changed? after 60 years anything is possible.......
Good Advice
0
No reactions
New Zealand

1956 A10 Golden Flash (1st finished project)

1949 B31 rigid “400cc hot rod” (2nd finished project, + favourite bike)

GL1800 Goldwing, well, the wife likes it

KTM 950 ADV, cos it’s 100% nuts

1952 Armstrong Siddeley Whitley for rainy days (with wife)

Offline bikerbob

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 556
  • Karma: 7
Re: Gearbox identification
« Reply #14 on: 25.08. 2017 09:55 »
I think it a real possibility that your gearbox has been changed over the years, the reason I say this is because your bike was delivered to the dealer in January 1960.  The BSA production runs were from the beginning of August one year till the end of July the next. So 1960 models would be leaving the factory from August 1959, now it is well known that BSA would use up existing stock so some parts during the early months would be from the preceding model. But by January I would expect that they would have been long used up, also at that time BSA was having their best sales so bikes would not be hanging around in the factory.
Good Advice
0
No reactions