Author Topic: Retro fitted indicators = dangerous!  (Read 2114 times)

Offline worntorn

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Re: Retro fitted indicators = dangerous!
« Reply #45 on: 13.09. 2017 15:38 »
The Signal Dynamics self cancelling module is ideal for retro fitting indicators to a Vintage bike ( has to be 12 Volt though)
It's the flasher and self canceller all in one tiny package.
On one bike I used a single universal type switch on the left side. It was easy to convert the switch to momentary action.
The signals work this way-
- A  one second push of the switch gives 7 flashes, ideal for changing lanes on the fly.

- A two second push gives 20 flashes, good for doing a rolling corner thru a green light intersection.

- A three second or greater push gives 50 flashes, this is for waiting to make a turn at an intersection after stopping for a red light.

If left and right momentary switches are fitted instead, then the rider can depress both switches to get hazard or four way flash from the indicators.
It all works extremely well, all the bases are covered by this ingenious little device.
I understand the OP's concern having done the same thing with the manual indicators on the Commando. I've accidentally left  them on when going straight thru an intersection. The car opposite is turning across my lane and I am inadvertently telling him it is safe to do so!
Had a couple of self caused near misses this way then found and installed the self cancellor- end of problem.
Now I can let other drivers know my intention daytime or nightime without fear that my weak memory will get me killed.
Sometimes I use hand signals+ the indicators, the more the better.

Glen

Offline coater87

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Re: Retro fitted indicators = dangerous!
« Reply #46 on: 13.09. 2017 23:07 »
My Goldwing indicators automatically cancel because it has a lean angle sensor fitted. After you complete your turn the sensor knows the bike is coming back up to the vertical and automatically cancels the indicators. Wouldn't like to try fitting it to the A10 though.

ELLIS

 Ellis,

 You just solved a mystery for me. Working over the phone with a friend on some electrical problems he has with an 80s motorcycle. The schematic has something called "lean detector", had no idea what that was until now. *smile*

Lee
Central Wisconsin in the U.S.

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Re: Retro fitted indicators = dangerous!
« Reply #47 on: 13.09. 2017 23:50 »
The Signal Dynamics unit Worntorn described sounds like the most sensible solution out there and  thanks for that, I will look into that unit.

As to the self cancelling,, My wifes 2000 883 Sportster self cancels the turn signals and works well, I am unclear if its a steering thing or timing, but planned to look into it in the factory manuals and XL forums but I like how it works. 

As to using signals when no one is around, my read of the laws in my state and neighboring states (Oregon-Washington-Calif) all clearly state in revised statutes that failure to signal is a crime.  Does not allow for "Nobody was around" or,,, 2 wheel tuesdays are a free pass.  If a law enforcement officer observes you you can be cited for "Failure to signal".  I was up until recently lic as a public safety officer and the saying goes that if you cant find multiple violations in a 3 block stretch you are not competent.  What this means is,, we all break the rules every day if you were to look at such laws, It is the officers discretion to decide.  I know of a local guy who made the news for over 500 citations in a year for illegal lane changes.  The dept said its not unusual to have an officer enforce a pet peeve but that dept only issued 617 citations in a year so clearly THAT guy was a man on a mission.

Has nothing to do with BSA A10s & A7, but many modern bikes have a device called a BAS or Bank angle Sensor.  Some also have a safety sensor for the kick stands.  So these can present trouble shooting challenges when these sensors act up or even worse.......Intermittant.
But the BAS is intended to shut down the bikes engine in a crash or wreck for safety. Depending on model it needs to be reset if the bike is laid over.    I talked a friend thru diagnostics when on  a road trip he leaned his bike over to repair a item on the underside  and was easier to work on that way.  When set back upright it would not start or run. But sometimes these switches go funky all on their own. 

Again, irrelevant on a BSA.
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Offline kiwipom

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Re: Retro fitted indicators = dangerous!
« Reply #48 on: 14.09. 2017 00:48 »
hi guys, anyone working on the :- nobody was/is around principle was obviously wrong (If a law enforcement officer observes you, you can be cited for "Failure to signal") so indicate or expect to be cited, cheers
A10.G.Flash(cafe racer)Honda 250 vtr. Yamaha Virago XV920.

War! what is it good for?Absolutely nothing, Edwin Star.
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Re: Retro fitted indicators = dangerous!
« Reply #49 on: 14.09. 2017 06:21 »
 
 Admittedly there's some sound ideas here,  I  also don't mind Glenn's cancel one,  but being 12V and needing switches and stuff complicated it somewhat....but Roy's  switch from three other thread at least look the part(more or less)...

 Not so sure about 'lean/ no lean type ones though,  as when changing lanes there's not really a whole lot of lean going on, so unless  they're really sensitive.... *dunno*

 Afterthought - those bicycle type ones are probably as useful as anything,  but not sure of their legality in my world
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
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Re: Retro fitted indicators = dangerous!
« Reply #50 on: 14.09. 2017 06:27 »
Sounds like a whole lot of solutions looking for a problem. The one bike I have with indicators is an Indian Enfield Bullet. One switch on the left hand bar and you have to cancel it yourself. However, it has great big indicators which you can see when sitting in the saddle. Not enough to dazzle but enough to let you know they are flashing. Simple! 
2 twins, 2 singles, lots of sheep

Offline BSA_54A10

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Re: Retro fitted indicators = dangerous!
« Reply #51 on: 14.09. 2017 08:30 »
Bikes with with horsepower and hence potential high speed may indeed be safer in that they should have better brakes. Having said that, up here in the frozen North in the riding season the news on a pretty much a daily basis is of older bikers on sports bikes being killed on the roads.
I can't see any justification for high-powered sports bikes on UK roads with a 70mph speed limit. Ain't I boring? Or any German-manufactured car with an engine size above 1.6 litres. Especially if it's black. Or any hatchback. Especially with dark glass and lowered suspension.

Not just up there.
The over 50's bab's ( born again bikers ) overtook the young and inexperienced in % of crashes & % deaths - serious injury ( ambo evacuations ) about a decade ago down here.
Most are silly old fools on modern high performance bikes that are a handful for a fit & healthy 18 y/o let alone a rusty old fart carrying 20kg too much belly, with poor eyes, weak arm muscules & stiff joints.
Actually in 2015 over 50's beat the under 30's in absolute numbers of serious crashes and there are nearly 3 times more of them.

And yes I can just do speed limits most places with 13 Hp
The B40 with a massive 25 Hp can exceed the speed limit anywhere.
The A 65 can exceed most speed limits in 3rd  so why do learners need 60= hp ?
Once upon a time you needed to learn how to walk before you learned how to run. Apparently now days you have to start  flying.
When you NEED to fit ASB to a motorcycle, then technology has left the ability of the rider a long way behind
I can not
Bike Beesa
Trevor

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Re: Retro fitted indicators = dangerous!
« Reply #52 on: 14.09. 2017 09:09 »
Lot of truth in what you say Trevor. But we have to be inclusive these days! My mates include life-longers and then those who've been bitten by the bug later on.

There's an inevitable difference in the comfort level of those who've ridden all their life compared to those who've come to it later, even with decent training. But age is very definitely not our friend, whichever category we're in. Despite riding constantly for 46 years so far I notice things about myself I don't like as I get further into my 60s  . . . bloody hard to get my head round far enough to see behind to the left (right's all right still), eyes with glasses on are crap compared to the proper unadorned ones I used to have, reaction times are down whether I want to admit it or not. Bum less able to spend hours in the saddle unrelieved - in both senses! So for someone reasonably new to it, especially on a rocketship, it's likely to be harder still. My only semi-modern, with its 100+ horses, can scare the bejasus out of me sometimes if I'm not paying proper attention.

The biggest differences between the 'lifers' and the 'latelies' that  I see are in 'lines',  braking habits and lack of smoothness in curves. Those familiar with old British money will know what I mean when I say how alarming it can be to be behind someone who 'threepenny bits' round bends. Quite often I find myself right up the exhaust pipes of these people, despite having maintained a decent gap before a bend  . . . On bikes with modest power and just 4 speeds - ours - you have to try to maintain road speed, which requires a positive approach to bendy bits; with unlimited horses and a sackful of torque it doesn't matter because the throttle is your willing ally if you let roadspeed drop right off.

But whatever the case, we need to keep all oldies on side, whichever sort - they have the money to keep the modern makers going, and the parts people - and the classic movement especially. They are (most of) US! I wonder what the age profile is of buyers of say, new Triumphs? Not that young probably  . . . and I know very well the ageing profile of many classic clubs - it's depressing!
Bill

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Re: Retro fitted indicators = dangerous!
« Reply #53 on: 14.09. 2017 09:59 »
Quote
'threepenny bits'

Due to hospitals, family commitments and fettling  the old Flash I'm very short of riding miles,  it must be a couple of years since I had the road skimming under me on two wheels (shame on me I know).
Hoping I can manage corners at least like a new pound coin for a start  :!
All the best - Bill
1961 Flash - stock, reliable, steady, fantastic for shopping
1959 Rocket Gold Flash - blinged and tarted up  would have seizure if taken to  Tesco

Online ellis

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Re: Retro fitted indicators = dangerous!
« Reply #54 on: 14.09. 2017 14:37 »
HI coater87,
Its amazing what you can learn from this Forum. Glad to be of some help. *smiley4*

ELLIS

Offline RoyC

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Re: Retro fitted indicators = dangerous!
« Reply #55 on: 01.10. 2017 11:00 »
Quote
'threepenny bits'

Due to hospitals, family commitments and fettling  the old Flash I'm very short of riding miles,  it must be a couple of years since I had the road skimming under me on two wheels (shame on me I know).
Hoping I can manage corners at least like a new pound coin for a start  :!
A couple of years. I have recently got my BSA because my late wife wouldn't let me have one, my last bike in 1968 ended up with me in hospital for twelve months.  *sick*
I am now taking up biking after a fifty year break.
My bike is a 1958 A7SS
Stafford UK

Offline BrianS

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Re: Retro fitted indicators = dangerous!
« Reply #56 on: 11.10. 2017 13:52 »
Having ridden TTR250 trail bikes with indicators for many years, I really miss them on the A10. I really don't think flapping my arms around momentarily is good enough in modern traffic.

However, I totally agree that there can be an issue with riders leaving indicators flashing long after they have made their turning.

I fitted a Maplins buzzer on my TTR which works brilliantly.  See http://ttr250.activeboard.com/t49564210/installing-an-indicator-buzzer/

I will do the same if and when I ever get around to fitting indicators to the A10 ;-)

Brian
1955 BSA A10 Golden Flash
Exeter, Devon, UK

Offline RogerSB

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Re: Retro fitted indicators = dangerous!
« Reply #57 on: 21.10. 2017 12:19 »
Indicators, hand signals, indicators with bleepers are just tools and their effectiveness is down to what other road users may think or do. They don't guarantee to make you safer, only you can do that.

I passed my test in 1964, when all you had to do was ride around the block a few times while the examiner stood on the corner with a clip board, so most of the time you were out of sight of the examiner. After you passed and if you had any sense you learned some motorcycle road craft. Throughout the 80s and 90s I was a motorcycle instructor and examiner for the old RAC/ACU Training Scheme and later the BMF Rider Training Scheme riding Hondas, Yamahas, BSAs and a Matchless. My japanese bikes had factory fitted indicators and I used hand signals on my Brit bikes, alternating regularly between them.

The training method was initially to train pupils full control of a motorcycle such as riding in and out of cones, emergency stops, hill starts, basic maintenance, etc. When that was mastered we taught them road craft (on the road in amongst the traffic) and instilled in them that the main aid to their road safety is to ride defensively. This means don't make any move or do ANYTHING that puts you at the slightest risk of an accident. There are obvious ones (as mentioned earlier on this form) such as never pull out in front of a vehicle because its indicators are flashing - unless you have shed loads of room to do so and never assume what another vehicle is actually going to do even if it is signalling. So, in a nut shell don't risk your life or injury by assuming you will be noticed or what someone else may or may not do.

As instructors we always drummed it in to pupils to carry out lots and lots of rear observations, don't rely 100% on your mirrors and indicators. Always before you manoeuvre look behind first, then signal and then check behind again. If turning left do a life saver (look over your left shoulder) and then if you know its safe manoeuvre.  It's a difficult routine to get use to but it's a well tried and tested method and it's what you have to do when taking a motorcycle driving test today.

Banging on about this and not trying to teach granny to suck eggs but indicators are not the be all and end all of your safety. Yes they are a good aid to making your intentions noticed but they won't save you from the car that pulls out in front of you when you're doing 50 mph on the main road.

1960 Golden Flash

Offline muskrat

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Re: Retro fitted indicators = dangerous!
« Reply #58 on: 22.10. 2017 20:05 »
My rule of thumb is to look at everything out there (cars, trucks, pedestrians and wildlife) and think "how are you going to ruin my day". Then get past them as quickly as possible. Don't give them time to react.
I use my leg to indicate right maneuvers so I still have my right hand on the brake/throttle. Never could understand how your supposed to slow for a right hander with your arm out in the breeze.
Had a close call the other day. Aproaching a roundabout a car in the right side street had his left blinker on so I proceeded onto the intersection. Yep, he came out in front of me turning right. Locked up the rear and slid behind him and road over the center of the roundabout, beating him to the other side.
Cheers
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Re: Retro fitted indicators = dangerous!
« Reply #59 on: 23.10. 2017 19:18 »

Never could understand how your supposed to slow for a right hander with your arm out in the breeze.
I have some friction set on the twist grip so the bike keeps rolling while I signal.
Quote
Had a close call the other day. Aproaching a roundabout a car in the right side street had his left blinker on so I proceeded onto the intersection. Yep, he came out in front of me turning right. Locked up the rear and slid behind him and road over the center of the roundabout, beating him to the other side.
Cheers
I do hope you stopped him and politely advised him of the error of his ways!