Author Topic: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers  (Read 1810 times)

Offline gpo746

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2017
  • Posts: 63
  • Karma: 0
Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« on: 01.11. 2017 19:59 »
I cannot afford £300+ for a genuine Chronometric speedo , so I was wondering if these replicas would work on an STD gearbox . I believe the ratio is 2:1 .
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SPEEDOMETER-SPEEDO-80-MPH-REPLICA-SMITHS-ROYAL-ENFIELD-80MM-FACE-DIA-AEs/362133403475?hash=item5450d53753:g:eS8AAOSwzJ5XWn4v
I have and use one already on my Royal Enfield Bullet but that is front wheel driven . Personally , I would rather spend £300+ on a decent Ignition and charging system than a chronometric . Has anyone done this ?
Good Advice
0
No reactions

Online JulianS

  • 1962 A10
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2017
  • Posts: 1064
  • Karma: 20
Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #1 on: 01.11. 2017 20:33 »
The problem is finding out what will work accurately with your bike. 2;1 is OK for a tachometer but does not tell you whether or not a speedometer will work satisfactorily on you bike.

There are many different setups/calibrations  with the chronometrics we use and 2;1 is too simple!
Good Advice
0
No reactions

Offline Dean

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 130
  • Karma: 4
Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #2 on: 01.11. 2017 21:15 »
I couldn't justify/afford £3-400 for a Smiths speedo for my bitsa so blew £15 on a bicycle sppedo. Dead easy to fit, far more accurate than a Smiths and it tells you the time. The only downside is discovering by how much the Smiths flatters your bike's speed!

So, you could fit a cheaper Indian for the looks but not bother hooking it up and fit a bicycle speedo for actual speed measurement.
Good Advice
0
No reactions
Never tell people your troubles. Half of them are not interested and the other half are glad you're getting what's coming to you.

Online Black Sheep

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2017
  • Posts: 734
  • Karma: 6
    • Where black sheep live
Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #3 on: 01.11. 2017 21:50 »
Look out for a Smiths magnetic one. Much cheaper.
Good Advice
0
No reactions
2 twins, 2 singles, lots of sheep

Offline gpo746

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2017
  • Posts: 63
  • Karma: 0
Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #4 on: 01.11. 2017 22:14 »
Look out for a Smiths magnetic one. Much cheaper.
The Indian replicas are dead cheap at under £20 but do the Smiths magnetic type have the same shell/fittings/face etc?.  The only magnetic ones I have come across are the tiny wee Bantam ones or the huge mini/morris minor types .
Good Advice
0
No reactions

Offline gpo746

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2017
  • Posts: 63
  • Karma: 0
Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #5 on: 01.11. 2017 22:18 »
I couldn't justify/afford £3-400 for a Smiths speedo for my bitsa so blew £15 on a bicycle sppedo. Dead easy to fit, far more accurate than a Smiths and it tells you the time. The only downside is discovering by how much the Smiths flatters your bike's speed!

So, you could fit a cheaper Indian for the looks but not bother hooking it up and fit a bicycle speedo for actual speed measurement.

Yes, my pal did that with a 1942 WLA45 Harley Chop ...unfortunately , he was using A10 STD 'boxes and binned a couple when the bushes went every year or so.... in the days when you could pick a A10 box up for £20..
Good Advice
0
No reactions

Online Bsareg

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Mar 2016
  • Posts: 289
  • Karma: 2
Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #6 on: 01.11. 2017 23:59 »
I've  tried the Indian "replicas" twice. The first had the correct connector of 12mm with 1mm pitch, but required an inner cable with 2.4mm square, so went back. The second had the correct inner of 1/8" square but a much larger and longer connector with a coarse thread . Both seemed to work smoothly and looked  fair copies, even had made in England on dials !!  I'm  convinced that the correct combination is there somewhere, so will keep trying.
Good Advice
0
No reactions
C11,B40,B44 Victor,A10,RGS,M21,Rocket3,REBSA

Online Brian

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2007
  • Posts: 1713
  • Karma: 41
  • Mt Gambier, South Australia.
Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #7 on: 02.11. 2017 04:40 »
What about a GPS one something like this

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/85MM-200KM-H-Car-Boat-Gauge-Trim-Analog-GPS-Speedometer-Digital-Odometer-Red-LED-/112556169250?_trksid=p2385738.m2548.l4275

You do need 12v though but a lot of us have converted our bikes to 12v

Good Advice
0
No reactions

Online Black Sheep

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2017
  • Posts: 734
  • Karma: 6
    • Where black sheep live
Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #8 on: 02.11. 2017 06:40 »
Smiths magnetic clocks were a direct replacement for expensive chronometrics on all British bikes. Look as A65s, 650 Nortons etc. So they are out there and do fit. And they are cheap.
Good Advice
0
No reactions
2 twins, 2 singles, lots of sheep

Offline Butch (cb)

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 1560
  • Karma: 14
Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #9 on: 02.11. 2017 08:44 »
... so blew £15 on a bicycle sppedo. Dead easy to fit, far more accurate than a Smiths and it tells you the time. The only downside is discovering by how much the Smiths flatters your bike's speed!


Yeah, I had one fitted to my Sportster for a while. I was quite surprised to find (on private land obviously) that there was in fact a third digit for when you exceeded 100 mph. Now why would you need that on a a bicycle?
Good Advice
0
No reactions
Warning - observations made by this member have a 93% unreliability rating.

Of Bikes; various, including ...
'58 Iron Head Flash Bitza


Offline duTch

  • Ricketty Rocketty Golden Flashback
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 4540
  • Karma: 41
Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #10 on: 02.11. 2017 08:54 »
 
Quote
I couldn't justify/afford £3-400 for a Smiths speedo for my bitsa so blew £15 on a bicycle sppedo. Dead easy to fit, far more accurate than a Smiths and it tells you the time. The only downside is discovering by how much the Smiths flatters your bike's speed

 I did this when my cable was busted again on the Gutzzi mid-return trip from Melbourne...tried a few different ones after and worked fine but high attrition rate for different reasons, but ran analogue type ones (magnet on spoke) and one on each bike......

 Then I used a Garmin GPS one which was ok  and can swap between bikes, but also went to gps in the sky...been using a Bryton edge100 (I think) and works good, and also able to swap between bikes, even though both bikes speedos work fine and in mph one reads high and one reads low, so I average them (and the GPS Bryton is set in Kph) keeps me on my toes.

 * got pulled over by the law on last Sunday out of town and he didn't arrest me so couldn't have been too bad *smile*

 Rounded up by CB....;
 
Quote
Yeah, I had one fitted to my Sportster for a while. I was quite surprised to find (on private land obviously) that there was in fact a third digit for when you exceeded 100 mph. Now why would you need that on a a bicycle?

   *conf* 'Cos some people peddle faster than ... *dunno*

 
Good Advice
0
No reactions
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Online Rex

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2017
  • Posts: 617
  • Karma: 2
Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #11 on: 02.11. 2017 09:05 »
The Indian-made speedos are exactly what you'd expect for twenty quid delivered to your door, and look exactly right...from about ten yards away! The connector is incorrect, although JJ Cables (I believe) make suitable cables with the correct ends.
They also are not a direct replacement in many applications as being magnetic speedos the cable entry is central on the base, whereas the Chrono is off-set to the side. The case is also deeper on the Indian copies.
Some say they fail by the end of the street while others report a year's use before failing.
Basically cheap tat. *sad2*
Good Advice
0
No reactions

Offline Sluggo

  • Serial Hoarder, or Eccentric Collector depending on viewpoint
  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2017
  • Posts: 639
  • Karma: 11
Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #12 on: 02.11. 2017 09:44 »
Some of those Indian made ones are quite an attractive price, I have not tried many of them but for a while worked for a shop that was an Enfield dealer so they seemed to work okay but I have no idea those sold online are the same as fitted to Enfield bikes. 

But heres my takeaway... MOST of those wont look right on a British bike like an A10 or BSA preunit single.
The reason is on a enfield they have what is called a Casquet or Nacelle so its hidden when installed except the face.  Notice in the picture they dont show a side or rear side view?  So, I have seen a few people use them (And matching tachs) and installed them in cup like holders (Similar to A65, or OIF rubber cups, or Norton  Commando type mounts that cover up the sides and back.  So if you dont mind some fab work and creative work at it, they wont look right

#2) Many (Not all, but most) have metric threads and the mounts are metric as well as the cable housing threads so that is manageable but not easily solved.

So, that type do look rather cool and good prices, cant say how they hold up.  But not exactly an easy swap and not look like bodgering.

All is not lost however, while noted, the later Smiths magnetic instruments are out there and cost less than the chronos, but they are not cheap nor are they inexpensive to overhaul and while a simpler design (The Chronos are like a swiss watch inside, but the magnetics are much simpler) they are not all that durable or easy to match up with the wide range of gear ratios and drives.

But there is a variety of repop instruments at very attractive prices and in the past there was a variety of them made..  Ill post some pictures if you like of some of them,  But the old US distributor "Domiracer" and accyMart (Same place, Dommi was for shops and dealers the AM was the retail side) made their own repops and I liked them, I bought around 30-40 sets back in the day and had many happy customers, I have 2 pairs left-1 used and 1 new in box I am saving for specific projects.  Dommiracer went out of business a couple years ago and I mourn their loss.

There is some other company(s) making repops now and in the last 10 years I have ordered quite a few sets and the prices were great, and they had 2 styles,  Good knock offs of the magnetic models they had black face and grey face versions,, and I understand they make some now with Chronometric style faces but are magenetic internally.  In the last 15 years I had only one customer who had a failure and I am still not clear what the problem was... Instrument or owner?  But I have some here and can take some pictures for you.

Then there is a guy based out of Utah and he races a Norton and seems to be a promoter or operator of the road racing facility in Utah.  I have met him at some of the Norton rallys and he is the US distributor of the modern Smiths instruments and they seem well made, durable and good quality.  I have heard positive reviews and nothing negative except the price.

Tom killen??  I have his business card in my office,,  If you are in the UK there is a UK dealer.  But this guy is the US rep,, 
See his website,, http://smithsgaugesusa.com/

I have looked them over extensively and cannot find fault with them, But I have not personally bought or used any of his.

** I cant find my grey face repops at the moment (Went and looked) but here is some others..

Some instruments with TRIUMPH logo. Not sure if those are repops are some sort of mid 70s factory triumph instruments (Anyone know) 

Some of the Domiracer instruments,

Some NOS Chronos,, old dealer stock. Some of them were for police bikes and have certificates of accuracy presumably for court cases?  (Oh! the irony!)  Sorry, Not for sale

Set of generic repops on a 67 Triumph twin in my shop,,

Good Advice
0
No reactions
Remember that any advice received on a free internet forum is generally worth about 1/2 of what you paid for it.
We overcharge every 3rd customer to pass the savings onto you.
You can have High Quality, Low price, and fast turnaround. Pick any 2, Never all 3 at the same time.

Offline gpo746

  • A's Best Friend
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2017
  • Posts: 63
  • Karma: 0
Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #13 on: 02.11. 2017 10:15 »
Some of those Indian made ones are quite an attractive price, I have not tried many of them but for a while worked for a shop that was an Enfield dealer so they seemed to work okay but I have no idea those sold online are the same as fitted to Enfield bikes. 

But heres my takeaway... MOST of those wont look right on a British bike like an A10 or BSA preunit single.
The reason is on a enfield they have what is called a Casquet or Nacelle so its hidden when installed except the face.  Notice in the picture they dont show a side or rear side view?  So, I have seen a few people use them (And matching tachs) and installed them in cup like holders (Similar to A65, or OIF rubber cups, or Norton  Commando type mounts that cover up the sides and back.  So if you dont mind some fab work and creative work at it, they wont look right

#2) Many (Not all, but most) have metric threads and the mounts are metric as well as the cable housing threads so that is manageable but not easily solved.

So, that type do look rather cool and good prices, cant say how they hold up.  But not exactly an easy swap and not look like bodgering.

All is not lost however, while noted, the later Smiths magnetic instruments are out there and cost less than the chronos, but they are not cheap nor are they inexpensive to overhaul and while a simpler design (The Chronos are like a swiss watch inside, but the magnetics are much simpler) they are not all that durable or easy to match up with the wide range of gear ratios and drives.

But there is a variety of repop instruments at very attractive prices and in the past there was a variety of them made..  Ill post some pictures if you like of some of them,  But the old US distributor "Domiracer" and accyMart (Same place, Dommi was for shops and dealers the AM was the retail side) made their own repops and I liked them, I bought around 30-40 sets back in the day and had many happy customers, I have 2 pairs left-1 used and 1 new in box I am saving for specific projects.  Dommiracer went out of business a couple years ago and I mourn their loss.

There is some other company(s) making repops now and in the last 10 years I have ordered quite a few sets and the prices were great, and they had 2 styles,  Good knock offs of the magnetic models they had black face and grey face versions,, and I understand they make some now with Chronometric style faces but are magenetic internally.  In the last 15 years I had only one customer who had a failure and I am still not clear what the problem was... Instrument or owner?  But I have some here and can take some pictures for you.

Then there is a guy based out of Utah and he races a Norton and seems to be a promoter or operator of the road racing facility in Utah.  I have met him at some of the Norton rallys and he is the US distributor of the modern Smiths instruments and they seem well made, durable and good quality.  I have heard positive reviews and nothing negative except the price.

Tom killen??  I have his business card in my office,,  If you are in the UK there is a UK dealer.  But this guy is the US rep,, 
See his website,, http://smithsgaugesusa.com/

I have looked them over extensively and cannot find fault with them, But I have not personally bought or used any of his.

** I cant find my grey face repops at the moment (Went and looked) but here is some others..

Some instruments with TRIUMPH logo. Not sure if those are repops are some sort of mid 70s factory triumph instruments (Anyone know) 

Some of the Domiracer instruments,

Some NOS Chronos,, old dealer stock. Some of them were for police bikes and have certificates of accuracy presumably for court cases?  (Oh! the irony!)  Sorry, Not for sale

Set of generic repops on a 67 Triumph twin in my shop,,

Nice sets of clocks you have there !. Looked at The Smiths site link you gave and the prices are not that far off buying a S/H original after taxes , shipping and import duties they will be more than buying a recon original . I really want to keep the costs down on the speedo. Now, Where it comes to cables I will have to make my own up I think.
Even though my bike is a '54 I will be using the later nacelle so all will be hidden .
I may end up using an indian one and comparing it side by side with a GPS system ... or the good old way of getting a mate to follow me and I give him the thumbs up when my speedo hits 30mph and he records what his car is doing..crude as hell but does give an indication of where you are ....sort of !  *smile*
Good Advice
0
No reactions

Offline Topdad

  • bob hebdon
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 2253
  • Karma: 32
  • l
Re: Indian "Smiths Chronometric" Speedometers
« Reply #14 on: 02.11. 2017 11:09 »
"yrs ago I bought an indian replica ,cost £22 inc post . I had to get the cable changed by Verhill engs (royal enfield size screw onto speedo ) for about a tenner and it's worked really well and appears to be fairly accurate . It has a green insert which does look a little strange around the inside of the glass but could be changed ,i couldn't afford the silly money for an original and thought what the hell. Also customer service was great first instrument came was kilometeres I expected a get lost from the supplier in India when I asked for a english version instead I rec'd a replacement within days ,so I am a happy bunny and unless a total rivet counter is around noone seems to notice !
Good Advice
0
No reactions
" rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the blind obediance of fools"
United Kingdom