Author Topic: MB very unhappy - silentblocs fail in 2 months!  (Read 1610 times)

Offline mikeb

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in mid-september i posted happily about reassembling the swingarm on my 61 super rocket complete with new silentblocs. unbelievably, over the past month (and only a few runs) I had to admit to myself it was getting loose in the swingarm again. I pulled in down tonight and the 'new' silentblocs are completely stuffed - see photos below and this vid of the movement:
https://youtu.be/QRjzfTcsrrk. the second photo below is by driving the centres out - they were so perished it took little effort.
*angry* *problem* *angry* *problem* *sad* *dunno*

i thought the package looked a bit old when i got it so maybe it was decayed NOS, or just new rubbish. shame on the suppliers, i'll be calling them about it. i'm left with two questions:

1. where does one get decent new silent blocs? before someone suggests C&D, I've asked and they say what's on the market is so poor they won't carry them.

2. what's with the random sizing? other people write about the silentbloc outer being too large for the swing arm by up to .010". I've got another spare swingarm with unknown silect blocs in it and those inners are .008-.010" smaller than the ones I just fitted. hence my 'new' spindle and even the 'old' broken metric spindle won't fit. (some 'new' spindles are metric threaded and sized... *eek*). how can i have any confidence the next lot will even fit?

all help appreciated

Mike


New Zealand
'61 Super Rocket  - '47 B33 -  '21 Triumph Speed Triple RS

Offline Triton Thrasher

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Re: MB very unhappy - silentblocs fail in 2 months!
« Reply #1 on: 28.10. 2018 09:19 »
I’m riding around on 60-year old ones, which makes me think age does not wither them in a hurry.

Do you think you got the movement centred right so they weren’t forced too far in one direction and torn (I don’t know if that really happens, I’m just theorising).

Offline mikeb

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Re: MB very unhappy - silentblocs fail in 2 months!
« Reply #2 on: 28.10. 2018 09:31 »
TT - i think i got them pretty well fitted - measured up 20 times and pressed in evenly.
if you look at that second photo you can see the remains of the rubber on top of the old centres -  very perished. maybe they've spent 50 years stored in the NZ sunlight - a bit warmer than scotland? (I used to live in glasgow)
New Zealand
'61 Super Rocket  - '47 B33 -  '21 Triumph Speed Triple RS

Offline Triton Thrasher

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Re: MB very unhappy - silentblocs fail in 2 months!
« Reply #3 on: 28.10. 2018 09:34 »
Does anyone do a bronze bush conversion?

Online muskrat

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Re: MB very unhappy - silentblocs fail in 2 months!
« Reply #4 on: 28.10. 2018 09:43 »
G'day fellas.
About 1991 I had to cut the frame to get the s/a out. Made bronze bushes to fit. About to make new bush's as the old set up only lasted 26 years.
Will post dimensions in a week or ten. F knows where my drawings are.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
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Muskys Plunger A7

Online Greybeard

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Re: MB very unhappy - silentblocs fail in 2 months!
« Reply #5 on: 28.10. 2018 09:47 »
When I read about those darned metalastic bushes I keep wondering why people don't convert to bushes.
Greybeard (Neil)
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Supporter of THE DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDE https://www.gentlemansride.com

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A Distinguished Gentleman Riding his 1955 Plunger Golden Flash

Online KiwiGF

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Re: MB very unhappy - silentblocs fail in 2 months!
« Reply #6 on: 28.10. 2018 10:09 »
If c+d say there aren’t good blocs available I’d believe them, which means you will have a problem  finding good ones *problem* .....in my experience c+d would rather be out of stock than sell poor quality parts, unlike less reputable suppliers (who will tell you “take it or leave it it’s all that is available in the market”)

Your pic looks like the blocs you bought were old stock, a bit of very old looking rust there?

Bronze bushes like muskrat says is a good solution but you will need to get the “end float” control right, something (eg bronze washers, top hat Bush) needs to stop the side to side movement of the swing arm to a minimum, whilst allowing the spindle to clamp up tight as it does with blocs. The custom machining involved could be pricey.

Alternatively I guess you need to try to find a supplier whose stock is a few years old, before the supply chain became dodgy, the risk being you get more duff ones.

I suppose it’s not too surprising if usable blocs became unavailable, if they are made especially for bsas and can’t be adapted from a “standard” bloc used in larger volumes,  the sales volumes for bsas can’t be high!



New Zealand

1956 A10 Golden Flash  (1st finished project)
1949 B31 rigid “400cc”  (2nd finished project)
1968 B44 Victor Special (3rd finished project)
2001 GL1800 Goldwing, well, the wife likes it
2009 KTM 990 Adventure, cos it’s 100% nuts

Offline Triton Thrasher

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Re: MB very unhappy - silentblocs fail in 2 months!
« Reply #7 on: 28.10. 2018 10:34 »
Unity seem to imply that they sell a kit for BSAs, on Page 38.

http://www.unityequipe.co.uk/Unity%20EquipeCatalogue.pdf

Offline Swarfcut

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Re: MB very unhappy - silentblocs fail in 2 months!
« Reply #8 on: 28.10. 2018 16:54 »
 
  I always make tightening  the swinging arm pivot one of the last jobs, tightening it  with the weight of the bike on the wheels, and someone astride. This means that under normal running, the  torsional load on the comparatively thin rubber bush is at its least. Tightening  vehicle suspension bushes with the weight of the vehicle on its wheels is also an accepted practice. Tightening the spindle with the swinging arm hanging down means the bush is already in  a fair amount of shear  by the time the bike is fully roadworthy. Leaving tightening to last will make the bush last longer.

 Swarfy

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Re: MB very unhappy - silentblocs fail in 2 months!
« Reply #9 on: 28.10. 2018 17:23 »
mmmmm makes sense swarfy-- mine are original and even stood up to stove enamelling 38yrs ago

Online muskrat

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Re: MB very unhappy - silentblocs fail in 2 months!
« Reply #10 on: 28.10. 2018 18:54 »
G'day fellas.
Here's the Unity page. I haven't seen their kit.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline mikeb

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Re: MB very unhappy - silentblocs fail in 2 months!
« Reply #11 on: 28.10. 2018 19:22 »
TT/musky - that unity kit looks interesting - has anyone tried one? or have a guess about the quality of stuff unity supply?
they spec the spindle as 3/4" whereas i thought it was 13/16" (mine measures to that). more sizing mystery???

Swarfy - yes i made sure the wheel was on the ground and me on the seat before tightening the spindle nut.
New Zealand
'61 Super Rocket  - '47 B33 -  '21 Triumph Speed Triple RS

Online berger

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Re: MB very unhappy - silentblocs fail in 2 months!
« Reply #12 on: 28.10. 2018 19:27 »
you may well find out b*st**d john has got unity's stock, take another mortgage out be prepared to get talked AT! I , I wish you well--- merry christmas

Offline chaterlea25

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Re: MB very unhappy - silentblocs fail in 2 months!
« Reply #13 on: 28.10. 2018 19:42 »
Hi All,

Andy Higham posted a thread on Britbike forum on converting the swingarm to needle roller bearings
The inner sleeve dimension would need to be changed for the hollow spindle
Andy is a clever guy and has a build on his B31 to Goldie replica here
http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/640945/1
It has his own designed electric start and Suzi based clutch

http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=622841&Searchpage=1&Main=66918&Words=%2Bbearing&Search=true#Post622841

and published a drawing here

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ffxgy54qcp1z262/BSA%20swing%20arm%20bearings.pdf?dl=0

John

1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Offline kiwipom

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Re: MB very unhappy - silentblocs fail in 2 months!
« Reply #14 on: 28.10. 2018 19:49 »
hi guys, MikeB i am sure you cold get someone in NZ to make some based on the `silent block` measurements ,that is what i would do if i needed some. Perhaps Musky can supply a pattern with dimensions for you? good luck, cheers 
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