Powder coated frame

[jhg1958]

Just found out that the local powder coating shop is still open.  So it is a good time to get the frame ready for painting.

Do any members have any tips or warnings about this.  It is a 1961 A10 with swinging arm.  Given the state of the rest of the bike I will be repacking all the bearings anyway.

Also I have no stand.  Is it worth buying one now and getting it powder coated at the same time?

The colour will be black. I don’t suppose there is a specific colour or one that would be noticeable anyway.

John

[scotty]

Howdy John

I powder coated mine years ago and it has stood up well
I also PC’d swing arm (bushes removed)
Triple tree, divers helmet thing,
front engine mounts, Gbox mounts.

If you get a new stand be sure to dry fit it before any powder coating

The guy that did mine (Tony at Rainbow PC in Poco Van) did a great job.
He blasted components first before putting them in the oven.

Any colour you want as long as it’s black

S

[muskrat]

G'day John.
I'd screw a bolt in any hole with a thread and make plugs for the steering head and swing arm.
Cheers

[RichardL]

J,

Though I am yet to reassemble my bike since powder coating, the taping and thread plugs used by my powder coater appear to have done a good job. However, I do expect that some drilling or tapping out will be required under the title, "Isn't that how it always goes?"

You may want to ask the powder coater to avoid the frame number. The powder coat will make it impossible (or nearly so) to read the number. On the other hand, I didn't ask for it to be protected, and had to grind away the coating at the number. The  result may look better than protecting it in the first place, giving it that engraved-and-filled look (see picture). I applied some clear acrylic to avoid rust.

I'm no expert on this, and others here have done otherwise (Scotty, for example), but I don't believe in powder coating tinwork that you may need to fix in the future or flexes in use (like mudguards). Just me.

I din't get my swingarm powder coated. I assumed the silentblocs were good and I would rather ride around with an epoxy-painted swingarm than do an unnecessary silentbloc swap to avoid the powder-coat oven.

If you want a stand and it's easy to get, sure, have it done now. If you need to wait, it will be a bit extra money for being separate from the bigger project, but it shouldn't be that much (particularly if you allow it to be whatever black they are already spraying on that day).

As for blacks, if it's a big shop (as mine was) they will have a few (or several) to choose from. Same goes for gloss levels.

Hope this helps.

Richard L.

[Brian]

John I am a powdercoater, its my "profession" and I do lots of bike frames. Anyway a few tips, firstly dont worry about rust or old paint but it must be totally clean of any grease or oil. If the headstem is full of grease you must clean it all before taking it to the coaters. Make sure you do any repairs needed like thread repairs, welding etc. Any threaded holes you can put old bolts in or make sure you tell the guy at the coaters that you dont want any of them coated. They will have a variety of silicone plugs and sleeves etc that they will use to plug any holes you dont want coated. You can leave the headstem bearing cups in but make sure you tell them that they are not to be coated, after they have sprayed the frame they can wipe of/blow off any areas that you dont want coated. The frame number is a bit more difficult, if they are experienced with bike frames they will be able to minimise the thickness of the coating over the number so it will still be readable. If they are not used to doing bike frames tell them to cut a small piece of tape (they will have proper heat proof tape) and place over the number. When you get the frame back you can mask around the number and give it a spray with a pressure pack. If the bike is currently registered in your name then it doesnt matter if the number is hard to read. They will get the frame sand blasted to bare metal, then apply a zinc based primer which is baked, then they will coat with the colour of your choice (gloss black?). There are a few blacks but basically they will ask if you want matt, satin or gloss. Old bike frames are usually gloss. Try to take it somewhere that has done bike frames in the past, they will know how to go about it.

[Swarfcut]

     Powder coating is a well established industrial batch process, used where components are new, clean and somewhat identical.  Adding your bits as an extra to a production batch may get you a keen price, but unlikely any sort of guarantee.  Price for a single unit may be negotiable, being nice and a gift  (beer) to the guy doing the job made me think I got a good deal. Make a list of what you take to be done, show the guy...... bits disappear in that oven! He's working, and not really thinking about your job, more of the 200 billhooks, brackets and barstools he's supposed to be doing.

     Frames are notorious for disappointment. Previous smooth areas of tube will be blasted back through the filler, to  clean rust pits, and powder coats are  rather thin. So you may end up with a rather nice finish which shows up every rust pit and previously hidden repair. The frame number may also change, if some previous miscreant has worked some magic to match an unknown frame to known paperwork.

  As regards preparation, make sure you know what you get for the money, compare apples with apples.  Blank off all internal threads,  BlueTac works, Bathroom Silicone also, but carries a risk of getting in the wrong places.  Grease and dirt cause the blast medium to stick, hence the need for the parts to be clean. All previous comments about repairs, welding etc  headraces etc are all based on experience, all valid and important points to observe.

  Sheet metal parts suffer even more from rust pitting, and while the process is quick and produces a good finish, results on 60 year old mudguards and oiltanks are unlikely to be the flawless finish achieved on new modern parts.

 You can see I'm firmly in the bottom end of the market, and not all powder coating is the same.

 Swarfy.

[RDfella]

Be careful what you expect. Agree with Swarfy, frames are likely to be a disappointment because with paint you can rub back several coats of primer/filler to a decent finish before going to gloss. Powder is a bit like chroming – you get what’s underneath with a shine. Some frames will end up with the finish of a glossy concrete block. Also, unless you’ve already stripped all paint off the tinware, be prepared for a few surprises. One oil tank I did looked fine in paint – underneath was a lot of filler hiding a multitude of dents and a hole. Looked like someone had been beating it with a chipping hammer and had actually punctured it in the middle. Or half a dozen significant dents in a petrol tank that had been filled in some places with brazing but generally polyester filler.

[bsa-bill]

you get what’s underneath with a shine

My powder coater advised never to use an abrasive polish on powder coat as it is faitly soft

[Rex]

You two must be unlucky. I use a superb firm in Southampton called "Trestan" and they offer the full service of powder-coating, stove enamelling, 2 pack, etc.
I wouldn't have a petrol or oil tank power coated a) because the metal is too thin and so it would be unwise to risk blasting damage, and b) I wouldn't want to risk blasting media residue in either tank.
For the iron work of frame, yokes, sliders, foot pegs, stands etc power coating can't be beaten in my experience although I haven't yet had any unseen corrosion or damage come to light. If blasting did show problems then all well and good. I'd rather know about potential problems than not.

[BSA_54A10]

powder coating is like spay painting.
It is a process not a product.
And just like paint where there are thousands of different kinds , there are also hundreds of different powder coatings.
From glass hard fully vitrious ( same as a bath tub ) right through to never fully hardening soft but very thick vynal .
Some will chemically combine with the base metal while others just create an envelope with very poor adheasion, think of the outdoor furnature where it comes off in strips revealing badly rusted steel underneath .
So you have to ask what the coated is using and what the finish is like.
And like everything, paing a lot of money is no guarantee of a good & durable finish but paying a very small amount will certainly have you regretting not spending a bit more in a very short amount of time.

[jhg1958]

Thanks for all this good stuff. I use DES Ltd in Furness Vale.  They are close [url] but they  come highly recommend by the local bike fraternity and they have done some work on bits from my Honda.  They obviously do lots of different components but the owner is a motorcyclist and has a passion for his work with motorcycle bits. He knows what he is doing and takes great care to talk to customers to find out what they want.

It is a very good point about deep pitting corrosion. If Once it is blasted it Looks like surface of the moon , after powder coating it will look like the surface of the moon painted.  Not so important on a frame that does not have large flat areas. I better look anyway.

 Also the threads.  I ran a tap through my Honda threads but I am not sure what threads the BSA use and I do not have any BCI taps anyway. 

Dismantling has gone well until the swinging are.  Here I am still struggling. The bearing is seized. All bad news really.

John 

[Swarfcut]

   John. Are you sure it has seized? The standard set up is two thin walled "Silentbloc"  bushes. Even when new these have limited, stiff movement. Usual symptoms when they fail is the swinging arm moves a bit too much, up, down, sideways!

  If it is really screwed, plenty on the Forum in the way folks solved the problem, from gentle persuasion, to death, destruction and other violent mayhem.

 Threads on non alloy parts are CEI, (BSCy.. known as Cycle Thread) so even just a few cheap carbon steel taps and dies will make make  cleaning threads easy.  3/16", 1/4" and 3/8" will do for starters. Threads into alloy are Whitworth.

 Swarfy.

[RDfella]

bsabill - struggling to see the connection of your post in relation to the quote you chose. I didn't mention polishing anything.

[bsa-bill]

you get what’s underneath with a shine

Just a heads up

[jhg1958]

Decided it has seized as it will not turn at all without the spindle moving.

Gave up messing about with it after a frustrating days effort.  Defeated, I Took the frame to my local bike engineer. Not sure of the cost but well worth it to me.

Thanks to all for advice especially the Great page on Cheshire BSA owners club https://sites.google.com/site/cheshirebsa/tech-tip

BSA-Bill
I never use abrasives on any painted or plastic surface. T-cut maybe but only with care and never on plastic.  My car headlamp is turning milky and Brasso does a fairly good job but it does not last.

John