Author Topic: 12 volt E3L  (Read 326 times)

Offline worntorn

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12 volt E3L
« on: 27.08. 2020 16:14 »
A good friend of mine is restoring a Superflash that came to him in running but rough condition.
Twelve years ago the previous owner converted the bike's Lucas dynamo to 12 volt. He purchased a 12 volt armature, 12 volt field and Podtronics DC reg from Walridge Motors here in Canada. This was as recommended by Mike Partridge, owner of Walridge. The system worked flawlessly for 12 years during which time the machine had much use. In fact the previous owner did not know it was a Superflash, he just thought it was another tatty old A10 and proceeded to ride the wheels off of it!
My friend identified it as a Superflash then paid quite a lot for it.
A couple of months ago he asked if I would consider swapping my Super Rocket's 6 volt armature and field for his 12 volt setup.
I explained that my 6 volt E3L was not working, only putting out 2 volts, but he was undeterred. He is very capable, having built replicas of several rare old bikes from nothing more than raw materials. ( Velo Roarer Supercharged, AJS V4, Vincent A twin)
So I dropped my E3L off at his shop so that he could get whatever he could from it.
He found that the armature was good but the field had a broken wire. He had another 6 volt field so no problem there.
He rebuilt my dynamo at 12 volts, installed new bearings etc. He set polarity for negative earth, which was his preference and generally would be mine as well.
The problem is that the Podtronics regulator is positive earth only. Of interest, it is of the converting type, 6 to 12 volt.
I would have expected a straight 12 volt Podtronics since the dynamo had been converted to 12 volts. Apparently the reg was also recommended by Mike Partridge.
It has lasted so Mike obviously knows what he is about.
I thought it would be nice to leave this freshly rebuilt dynamo intact and stay with the negative ground, so looked into purchasing a new Podtronics 12 volt DC reg in negative earth polarity.
 Not so long ago Podtronics did make these in negative and positive ground, as well as the conversion units in either polarity.
They no longer make any of those units.
The only DC regs they make are 6 volt, but they do offer a positive ground model and a negative ground model. Good to know but of no use in this application.
Is there someone making a negative earth solid state straight 12 volt reg today?Dynamo Regulators perhaps?
Alternatively I could take the dynamo apart to change the polarity back to positive ground, then continue using the Podtronics unit.

Thanks
Glen



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Online RDfella

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Re: 12 volt E3L
« Reply #1 on: 27.08. 2020 16:29 »
Surely all you need to do is 'flash' the dynamo to reverse polarity?
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Offline worntorn

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Re: 12 volt E3L
« Reply #2 on: 27.08. 2020 17:06 »
I read that online and tried it, several times. Nothing changed, it's still producing power at -earth when rotated counterclockwise.

Dan says it has to come apart for a polarity change.
Ive used the flash to wake up a sleepy dynamo, that was successful.


Glen

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Online metalflake11

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Re: 12 volt E3L
« Reply #3 on: 27.08. 2020 17:12 »
If it's a 12v negative earth regulator, the DVR2 is a popular and reliable choice on here.

Bulletproof unless you neglect to make a very good connection with the earthing wire, it fries them pretty quickly. Fit properly and forget.

I prefer negative earth simply because it's easier to get bits and pieces as it's the industry norm these days.
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Online groily

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Re: 12 volt E3L
« Reply #4 on: 27.08. 2020 17:17 »
As RDfella says - it's a 2 min job to get the original polarity back, costs nothing and job done.
Which does work Glen, ref your latest concern - it is, truly and honestly cross my heart etc etc, quite unnecessary to take the thing to bits to change it. Dan is, on this point, misinformed, like Bogart in Casablanca!

Polarity reversal may not suit though, if intending to run modern electrical accessories that only work on negative earth  . . .

 . . . in which case there are several decent regulators that would do the job. They mostly work at either 6v or 12v depending on preference - there's nothing inferior about that, if it's a concern, and most of us would count it an advantage.
The most popular one probably among folk here is the DVR2 from Dynamo Regulators whom you mention. Tried and tested to the nth degree by dozens of people here, I personally have 3, others may have whole shedsful!

The JG range might include a '12v only' unit (it used to, but not sure now). But, if you went that way you'd need to rewire your field coil connections to go between D and F, not D and E, and verify you've got the direction of rotation right when you've done it.  That's because JGs were designed for Miller systems originally.

It may be worth adding that new finer-wound '12v' armatures and field windings are actually easily available (and reasonably affordable) over the counter, as are brand new standard-wound items.
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Bill

Offline worntorn

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Re: 12 volt E3L
« Reply #5 on: 27.08. 2020 18:03 »
I'm going to give the flash method another try. Perhaps I did something wrong.
The dynamo has two wires,  a green and a yellow.
When rotated CCW the yellow wire shows
voltage to the dynamo body.
The green wire does not.
This is with multimeter positive probe on yellow wire, negative probe on dynamo body.
So that is negative earth, as intended.
For an attemptes reflash to positive ground, I connected battery positive to the body and touched
a wire from battery negative pole to the dynamo yellow lead, a few times. Some little sparks occurred, as expected.
No change, it still produces power at negative ground polarity.
Am I doing this incorrectly?

Glen
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Online groily

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Re: 12 volt E3L
« Reply #6 on: 27.08. 2020 18:16 »
The yellow wire is D, the green is F for field, or should be. The dynamo cover is marked F & D usually, so you can check that.
Disconnect them, get yourself about a yard of decent weight wire, and have a read here, which is the best explanation I know of -

https://www.matchlessclueless.com/electrical/lucas/repolarising-lucas-dynamo/

Afterwards, you'll need to reverse the wires on the ammeter, as it will show + for - and vice versa.

As the guys says at the end, as you pat yourself metaphorically on the back - 'Easy, wasn't it!?'!!
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Bill

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Re: 12 volt E3L
« Reply #7 on: 27.08. 2020 18:28 »
... the DVR2 is a popular and reliable choice on here.
And can be hidden inside an original regulator box.  ;)
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Offline worntorn

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Re: 12 volt E3L
« Reply #8 on: 27.08. 2020 18:29 »
Thanks, will give it a try and report back.

Glen
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Online metalflake11

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Re: 12 volt E3L
« Reply #9 on: 27.08. 2020 18:58 »
... the DVR2 is a popular and reliable choice on here.
And can be hidden inside an original regulator box.  ;)

 *smile*
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Offline worntorn

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Re: 12 volt E3L
« Reply #10 on: 27.08. 2020 19:20 »
That worked, thanks so much.
Very glad I asked the question and did not take it apart!

Glen
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Online groily

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Re: 12 volt E3L
« Reply #11 on: 27.08. 2020 19:31 »
Phew! Good news!
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Bill

Offline worntorn

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Re: 12 volt E3L
« Reply #12 on: 27.08. 2020 19:48 »
It will be nice to having working lights on the bike and the 12 volt is a bonus.
Will fit one of those latest greatest BPF LEDs with the improved focus, then run it at all times. They are only 12watts and very bright to oncoming traffic.
Not bad at night either, almost on par with a 60watt halogen. The 60watt h4 still has a slight edge for night riding, but daytime safety is more important for this bike.
I thought it strange that this system uses a 6to 12 conversion reg along with fine wire12 volt armature and fine wire 12 volt field.
Glen
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Online edboy

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Re: 12 volt E3L
« Reply #13 on: 27.08. 2020 22:01 »
worn torn. please read previous bogs as the questions you have have been well discussed. no offence intended.
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Online Bsareg

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Re: 12 volt E3L
« Reply #14 on: 27.08. 2020 22:11 »
I've a C11 with the short 35w e3 6v dynamo and wanted to try a h4 led headlight, so, keeping the rest of the bike at 6v simply put a 6v to 12v inverter (£5 from China) into the headlamp cicuit. Amazing difference.
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