lacing a rear wheel..

[Guy Wilson]

I'm lacing the spokes on a crinkle rear hub. I'm confident the spoke pattern is correct ( I have my A10 as a pattern) and as someone said on the forum ' its pretty hard to lace them up the wrong way)  The spokes are all the same length and straight.. all is well until I try and loosely connect the last the two or three spoke nipples the hub is slightly out of line at this point. The last spokes appear to be short which I know is not the case. The spokes are new from Feked. the rim is old and original..
Q: is there a sequence of fitting the spokes that I should be following like all the outer spokes both sides before fitting the inner? I've had three or four attempts and its not woking...
Guy

[RDfella]

Assuming you're assembling loosely (ie at least 1/8" of thread still showing on each spoke) then it looks like the spokes are too short. Over the years I've had wrong length spokes from several suppliers. Usually I prefer to mount a rim with just eight old spokes and measure what I need and then insist on that pattern / length rather than be talked into what the supplier thinks is correct. And the price of spokes these days is outrageous; should be about 1/3rd of what is asked.

[Guy Wilson]

to short was where I thought I may be.. I'll have another go.. I think I have some of the original spokes still.. seems obvious when someone else says it, but then there are the trees...
thanks RD

[Rex]

If the new spoke lengths match the old spoke lengths then they must be correct. You need to start all the nipples a few turns and then start the truing process. Sounds like you've wound some on too far.

[bikerbob]

New spokes will be slightly longer than the old spokes because after truing the wheel the excess that sticks through into the wheel rim has to be removed before fitting the rim tape. The last time I did the 2 wheels on my A65 new rims and spokes I ordered everything from The Central Wheel Company and they originally sent me the wrong rims also the spokes were all the same length but the front wheel is 8" hub and the rear wheel is 7" hub. The rims that they originally sent me were for an AJS and they tried to blame me for the wrong spokes saying that I gave them the lengths of the spokes but when they checked the original order they had to apologise  because all I gave them was the orignal part numbers.

[Guy Wilson]

The spokes I have are on average about a mm shorter than the original.. I did manage to get them all connected although the rim was so out fo line, I took them all off and started again.. I'm inclined to go with what Rex has suggested and start the lacing process again with less turns etc. Its proving a time bandit and I lack the time at the moment to spend more than a hour or so.. patience is such a waste of time... or so it seems..
Guy

[ironhead]

I'm lacing the spokes on a crinkle rear hub. I'm confident the spoke pattern is correct ( I have my A10 as a pattern) and as someone said on the forum ' its pretty hard to lace them up the wrong way)  The spokes are all the same length and straight.. all is well until I try and loosely connect the last the two or three spoke nipples the hub is slightly out of line at this point. The last spokes appear to be short which I know is not the case. The spokes are new from Feked. the rim is old and original..
Q: is there a sequence of fitting the spokes that I should be following like all the outer spokes both sides before fitting the inner? I've had three or four attempts and its not woking...
Guy

G'day Guy.
Are you trying to lace a crinckle hub for an A10  or is it for your B33?. If the latter, check the parts list as I seem to remember there are 2 different lengths.  Not much, about 1/16" / 1/8" or so.  shorter ones to sprocket side?

[Guy Wilson]

Its a B33.. ironed, so you could be on to something here. I will check at the weekend. Feked don't distinguish the difference.
thanks

Guy

[ironhead]

Its a B33.. ironed, so you could be on to something here. I will check at the weekend. Feked don't distinguish the difference.
thanks

Guy

Just found the info :  20 x  65-6303 spokes  @  7 &27/32"  ( short)  brake drum side.
                                20 x  65-6302             @  7 & 29/32"  ( long)

Seems like pattern part suppliers  Make one set to fit all.

[Guy Wilson]

I'll check I haven't assumed they were all the same length..this is what I bought...

https://www.feked.com/stainless-steel-spoke-set-bsa-b31-b32-b33-m20-m21-a7-a50-a10-a65.html

Guy

[Guy Wilson]

7''19/32 as the longer spoke is 200mm as near as. All the spokes I have are mm or so over that, so its more likely me and not the wrong spoke length. The originals are about 1 mm longer than the replacements..
I'll start the process again!

[Rex]

Over the years I've always found it best to send patterns (if possible)  to someone like CWC for them to make new spokes, at least then you know that any problems are yours not theirs..

[Swarfcut]

Rex, I'd certainly go with that. I've used Central Wheel in the past and found them to be very understanding and sympathetic when things have not gone to perfection. Considering the number of variants and the half century and more from when these things were new, odd mistakes are to be expected. It is how the problems are remedied that counts.

 Just looking at a spoke chart for early models, rigid and plunger frame, rear wheel with WM2-19 rim, crinkle hub, spokes listed are

  Left Side                                 Right Side

 67-6008     Length 7 29/32"       67-6008   ditto                              1949 A7, 1950 A7 A10


 67-6017     Length 7 27/32"       67-6016   Length  7  29/32"           1951-1952 A7 A10


 65-6303     Length 7 27/32"       65-6302   Length  7  29/32"           1953 A7,A10 Super Flash

 Different part numbers for some reason for the same size spokes. No wonder one size is offered. From memory A,B,M share many cycle parts, hope this is of interest.

 Swarfy

[ironhead]

Rex, I'd certainly go with that. I've used Central Wheel in the past and found them to be very understanding and sympathetic when things have not gone to perfection. Considering the number of variants and the half century and more from when these things were new, odd mistakes are to be expected. It is how the problems are remedied that counts.

 Just looking at a spoke chart for early models, rear wheel with WM"-19 rim, crinkle hub, spokes listed are

  Left Side                                 Right Side

 67-6008     Length 7 29/32"       67-6008   ditto                              1949 A7, 1950 A7 A10


 67-6017     Length 7 27/32"       67-6016   Length  7  29/32"           1951-1952 A7 A10


 65-6303     Length 7 27/32"       65-6302   Length  7  29/32"           1953 A7,A10 Super Flash

 Different part numbers for some reason for the same size spokes. No wonder one size is offered. From memory A,B,M share many parts, hope this is of interest.

 Swarfy

G'day Swarfy.
 I think you'll find the 67-6008 spokes are butted hence the different part number. Havn't checked the other two though.

[Guy Wilson]

thank you both..really helpful.. there is about mm difference in length between the long and the short.. The one size I have matched the longer spoke, so they should fit both.. as Swarfy says, its about solving the problem now.. The wheel is off an B33 although I think its the same as the A10.. time and enthusiasm will tell...
Guy