Author Topic: Rebuilt K2F engine wont start.  (Read 760 times)

Offline a101960

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Rebuilt K2F engine wont start.
« on: 21.04. 2021 14:29 »
A10 K2F just been rebuilt. fitted with Brightspark capacitor started up after fitting first kick, and subsequently ran fine 2 or 3 more times now it won't start at all. Checked for pilot jet blockage it is clear. New NC3 plugs. last time the engine ran it was idling when it fluffed and stopped. Not been able to start since. When kicking over spark varies from nice healthy purplely blue to whitish colour sometimes no spark at all. Anyone got any ideas? plug failure? capacitor gone bad? Clearly something is wrong. I'm totally lost. Even though new I strongly suspect the plugs.

Offline fffcycles

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Re: Rebuilt K2F engine wont start.
« Reply #1 on: 21.04. 2021 15:02 »
Obvious question. Did you take the k2f apart and remove the old cap from the circuit? You will have to make a quick check of the timing to make sure the chain gear has not slipped on the mag shaft to be quite sure
Frank
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Online groily

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Re: Rebuilt K2F engine wont start.
« Reply #2 on: 21.04. 2021 15:13 »
Suggest take plug caps off and see what sparks come off bared ends of leads, held about 1/4inch from head. Should be very healthy ones at kickstart speeds. If so, then maybe the plugs are a problem (try swapping for others first of all maybe?); if no better then maybe the leads aren't well-connected to the pick-ups or the plug caps or both. Am assuming pick-ups and brushes are decent quality and in good nick.

If all seems good, next port of call has to be the contact breaker.
If you have a meter that measures capacitance, then undo the centre screw (or take the unit right off), hold the points open with a bit of insulated something, and you should see (+/-10%) 150nF (0.15 micro-Farad) across the points on the capacitance scale. With them shut, you should see, on the resistance scale, 0 ohms or as near as dammit if they are properly clean. No capacitance open, or high resistance closed are both bad.

If there's a short across the capacitor, you'll see zero capacitance but you would probably see a steady resistance reading with the points open - that shouldn't be there.

If it's one of the later type steel contact breakers, make sure the little screw that holds the cb blade spring to the bent metal mount isn't too long, and touching the capacitor. It mustn't be too long. The circuit board isn't thick - an overlong  screw would be wide enough to touch both plated sides of it and short it.
Check also, if it's the steel cb unit, that the spring blade isn't kissing the camring as it goes round. If it does, you'll have problems because on them the blade is 'live'. On brass ones, the old style, it's the earth side, so a kiss won't stop the thing working.

Has to be something relatively simple I think, but only by doing one thing at a time methodically will the fault reveal itself.
Bill

Offline Seabee

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Re: Rebuilt K2F engine wont start.
« Reply #3 on: 21.04. 2021 15:28 »
Check for soft brushes leaving carbon tracks. DAMHIK
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Offline a101960

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Re: Rebuilt K2F engine wont start.
« Reply #4 on: 21.04. 2021 16:29 »
The contact assembly is the brass type. The original capacitor was removed as part of the rebuild and the armature was rewound. I will carry out the bare HT lead test and get a set of new plugs just in case. When a spark is generated it is a nice big fat one. The magneto was completely rebuilt from top to bottom. Rewound, new bearings, etc, the whole works as far as I know. I have stripped the HT leads and redone the connections, there was no sign of any corrosion at the joints. The puzzling thing is that at first everything worked just fine and now it doesn't. Anyway I will also get my meter out (digital) if that makes any difference and check out those values.

Online groily

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Re: Rebuilt K2F engine wont start.
« Reply #5 on: 21.04. 2021 17:11 »
Might also be a plan to check the HT continuity, just in case one of the thousand-to-one-chance goblins has struck.
While you have the meter out, stick one probe on the brass bit of the slipring through a pick-up hole, and t'other end to the mag body - should see about 5000 Ohms on a typical rewound coil. If it's Open Line - really do hope not - then (assuming the earth brush is in situ) either the coil connection to the slipring has gone south, or the coil itself has developed a fault. Happens extremely rarely, but there's nothing that 100% can't happen if the gods have prescribed maximum pain.
The brass cb unit rules out some of the common causes though.
Bill

Offline a101960

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Re: Rebuilt K2F engine wont start.
« Reply #6 on: 22.04. 2021 14:45 »
Unfortunately my meter is unable to measure capacitance so I was unable to check the Easycap out. I did measure the resistance, and that was bang on at 5000 ohms. I double checked the points gap and that was 12 thou. I'm just hoping it is plugs gone bad. Anyway I have ordered up a pair in the vain hope that, that is the problem.

Online orabanda

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Re: Rebuilt K2F engine wont start.
« Reply #7 on: 23.04. 2021 00:02 »
Check the timing; maybe the pinion has slipped on the taper?

Offline RDfella

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Re: Rebuilt K2F engine wont start.
« Reply #8 on: 23.04. 2021 18:33 »
Have you tried cleaning the slipring - bit of petrol-soaked rag through a pick-up hole?
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Online bsa-bill

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Re: Rebuilt K2F engine wont start.
« Reply #9 on: 23.04. 2021 18:57 »
Quote
bit of petrol-soaked rag through a pick-up hole?

pushed in with a bit of wood or something - but not your finger  *countdown*
All the best - Bill
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Re: Rebuilt K2F engine wont start.
« Reply #10 on: 24.04. 2021 07:10 »
I had a weird similar problem on the A10, running happily on a recently rebuilt mag. Decided to check the ignition timing and adjusted it. Coughed once than no spark at all. Did all the usual things, still no spark. Sent it off to Priory, checked over, all well, sparking on the test rig. Refitted it. No spark. Did the usual things again, nothing. Back to Priory. Andrew tears his hair out, strips and rebuilds mag again, sends it back. Fitted it to the bike, sparks, running beautifully once again.
What happened? Andrew puzzled, me clueless (not unusual in my case).
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Offline a101960

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Re: Rebuilt K2F engine wont start.
« Reply #11 on: 24.04. 2021 08:46 »
I have tried cleaning the slip ring. It was clean as a whistle, but so it should have been. Complete rebuild everything was replaced.

Offline Swarfcut

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Re: Rebuilt K2F engine wont start.
« Reply #12 on: 24.04. 2021 11:44 »
 Back to basics, mechanical, ignition, fuel.
  If the magneto has been completely rebuilt a fault here deep down is unlikely, but as Mr G elaborates, testing is simple. Driving the magneto in isolation and checking for sparks proves it works, whether the sparks are in the right place is the mechanical check, replacing the drive correctly is certainly tricky and swapping the leads is another mistake we all make.

 Running without the CB cover eliminates any unwanted earth via the cut out circuit. Daft as it seems, the magneto body need to have a good electrical connection to the crankcase. A jumper lead may be worth a try if early checks prove fruitless.

 Swarfy.

Offline a101960

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Re: Rebuilt K2F engine wont start.
« Reply #13 on: 24.04. 2021 14:49 »
Well, this what I eventually found. I removed the points plate and low and behold the cam ring had moved due it not being located on the restraining peg. It must have be loose when the timing was set, and when the engine was started to check the timing it obviously migrated even further round putting the timing way out and that is why the engine cut and would not restart. I removed the cam ring and relocated it with the slot on the peg.  I now have to lovely fat sparks but still no start because its now way over advanced and kicking back because the initial timing setting being wrong due to the cam ring position error. Ah well, you live and you learn, but why is it always the hard way. I now know do not turn the engine over without the points cover being in place.