Author Topic: Longstroke A7 Crankshaft  (Read 4919 times)

Offline Brandis

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Longstroke A7 Crankshaft
« on: 01.09. 2022 16:50 »
My crank.
47 A7

Offline Brandis

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Re: Longstroke A7 Crankshaft
« Reply #1 on: 01.09. 2022 16:59 »
Sorry, separate text or the file gets too big.
Does this look like a long stroke crank?    And yes, I have the slight recess for the oil slinger.
And, while you are here, any tips for pressing out the old crankshaft bushing.  I've done the standard rig.  Do I do some heat/cool or just apply more pull ?

PS:  You must have an amazing junk pile.

PPS:  My other issue is trying to deal with a friend's 1955 Chiang bad copy of a '36 BMW with sidecar that was left out in the rain way too long. He's paying by the hour.
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Offline Brandis

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Re: Longstroke A7 Crankshaft
« Reply #2 on: 01.09. 2022 17:07 »
And, let me quote the words from Roy Bacon, that I dread to see. 

" . . . the very first type was only used on engines up to XA7-600 after which the crankshaft design changed and the bush with it."

Mine is XA7-280.  Wish me luck.  Thank God all you lot have my back.
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Online RichardL

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Re: Longstroke A7 Crankshaft
« Reply #3 on: 01.09. 2022 17:47 »

Does this look like a long stroke crank? 

Hesitant to jump in here, where Swarfy has been awesome, and nothing contradicting him from me. Grabbing MY copy of Bacon's book. It seems that if you measure 82mm from center of the crank shaft to center of the journal, instead of 72.6mm, then, yes you have a long stroke.

Richard L.

Offline Brandis

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Re: Longstroke A7 Crankshaft
« Reply #4 on: 01.09. 2022 18:23 »
So mine is 41mm center to center which makes it 82mm stroke.  And, except for the unknown, before XA7-600 changes, we assume long stroke cranks will fit in all long stroke crank cases
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Offline Swarfcut

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Re: Longstroke A7 Crankshaft
« Reply #5 on: 01.09. 2022 19:10 »
 Easy Guys.  Yes, Brandis' Crank looks to be the right one with 82 mm stroke. Centre of big end journal to crank axis represents half the stroke. Cut out on the crankpin side of the flywheel is the clincher.

 Does the timing side bush need a change? Sure the new crank won't fit? If it does need a change, heat is your friend, plus a bit of a push or smack. Camping stove or domestic oven, even barby, heat up good and hot until a gob of spittle dances, and the old bush should make a dignified exit. Domestic oven risks cooking the gearbox mainshaft oilseal, but these usually need a change anyway. New bush in the freezer, hot case, drops back in. Clean the oilway from the oilpump to the back of the bush while the old bush is removed. This oilway has a ball valve to prevent oil drain down on standing, we call this wet sumping. Plenty on the forum about this valve and it's foibles.

 Your crankcase may need slight modification to take a later bush, but I would expect this to be a minor detail, BSA always were reluctant to spend on radical solutions. Plenty on the web showing bushing type used in later cases, the basic castings you can bet stayed the same so very good chance that the crank is a straight swap for these early cases.

 Despite its good looks, that crank needs the sludge trap plugs removing. You will sleep a whole lot better knowing all is in order. You might find something like this...

 Swarfy.

Online RichardL

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Re: Longstroke A7 Crankshaft
« Reply #6 on: 01.09. 2022 20:54 »
So mine is 41mm center to center which makes it 82mm stroke.  And, except for the unknown, before XA7-600 changes, we assume long stroke cranks will fit in all long stroke crank cases

Oops. Sorry for my slight misstatement.

Richard L.

Online RichardL

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Re: Longstroke A7 Crankshaft
« Reply #7 on: 01.09. 2022 21:01 »
There's gotta be a reason for that notch in the flywheel. It's almost as if they decided they had added all the weight they could to the counterweight side and still didn't have enough, so "let's take some out from the journal side."

Richard L.

Offline Brandis

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Re: Longstroke A7 Crankshaft
« Reply #8 on: 02.09. 2022 14:52 »
Swarfy's photo request
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Offline Swarfcut

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Re: Longstroke A7 Crankshaft
« Reply #9 on: 02.09. 2022 16:15 »
 That looks like the usual replacement bush. Steel carrier with a pegged insert. Available in pre-finished undersizes, the crank is then ground to the Service Sheet undersize and a running clearance then appears by magic. Or sometimes not. As stated before, grinding the crank just to clean up that timing side main journal then fitting a  line bored custom bush is considered a better way these days. All on the Forum, debated at length.

 Assuming that one is a replacement, not the one from your crankcases. Original ones were the steel carrier and a cast in bearing metal liner. Anyway, you can compare like with like as regards fitment dimensions. I would expect there to be little difference, if any, probably confined to the size of the flange diameter and maybe the number and size of the oil holes.

 Swarfy.

Offline Brandis

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Re: Longstroke A7 Crankshaft
« Reply #10 on: 02.09. 2022 18:31 »
With all due respect. . . .
Imagine it's 1950. You are in the US with your very unusual bike.  At 12K miles your engine fails.  (12K is what's on the odometer.)   You pull the engine apart and discover that the same oiling problem that the other first 500 had has happened to you. The con rods are one piece so you have to dismantle the crank.  BSA had already discovered that even the factory guys couldn't dismantle the crank.  BSA had next to no tech support back then in the US.  You are on your own and give up. Bike ends up on the second floor of the old American Lock Co. factory in Terryville Connecticut, where I found it.
Where in this scenario does the  replace the bush,  reassemble the bike and carry on riding fit? 
I have to believe it was an original bush and it was badly worn. Measuring the ID, it's about .008 too big.  That will ill your oil pressure.
I have an all brass -.010 bush on the way.  A trip to my tobacco chewing machinist in the alligator swamp is in my near future. Feedback please.
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Offline Swarfcut

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Re: Longstroke A7 Crankshaft
« Reply #11 on: 02.09. 2022 19:49 »
 Behind the scenes I'd requested a picture of the original bush from Brandis. He sent a link to ebay in the States which would not work for me. Caption was that this was the bush he had bought if I understand correctly.

 To me that picture above is a replacement later type, not an original factory type with cast in bearing metal. Could be someone has been there before......

 Swarfy.

Offline RDfella

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Re: Longstroke A7 Crankshaft
« Reply #12 on: 02.09. 2022 20:00 »
Original was a steel bearing lined with Babbit (white metal). Excellent bearing material for relatively low loadings. Today vehicle bearings are reticular tin or tri-layer for performance engines .
Replacement BSA timing side bushes are either a (probably reclaimed) steel bush with a phosphor bronze bush pressed in (OK provided the insert is pinned) or a solid bronze bush. I note a -.010" bush has been ordered - presumably then the crank is (although worm) standard size?
'49 B31, '49 M21, '53 DOT, '58 Flash, '62 Flash special, '00 Firestorm, Weslake sprint bike.

Offline Brandis

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Re: Longstroke A7 Crankshaft
« Reply #13 on: 02.09. 2022 20:52 »
SlightHitchMitch asks how you can get that much wear that fast.  Answer that and you solve the mystery of why BSA stopped the production line at XA7-600 and rethought the engine.
Roy Bacon says " . . .the crankshaft design changed and the bush with it." 
There have been some theories but they all involve oiling.  I worry that I'm restoring the same fault as I put it back together as faithfully as possible.  Hopefully modern motor oils will help out.
Is there a handy spot where I can take oil pressure readings from time to time?
Ahh, the delights and mystery of being in that first 500.
47 A7